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thrmaln
Oct 10, 2005, 6:16 PM
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Hello All,
As I have been doing more and more leading now, I find that I would like to have a thinner and lighter rope then the Edelweis Torrent I am currently using. While I like the Torrent for TR it is a bit stiff for leading. It never really softened up and every time I tie into a friends rope I think my rope is so stiff. Anyway, I am 6'4" and weigh in the 220-230lb range. Would going below 10mm be a bad idea? Can I go into the 9.7mm range? Regardless on what I end up with, I would like it to be softer then my Torrent. Anybody have any experience with Esprit ropes? How about the Mamut eternity?
Any suggestions?
Best regards,
Marc Webster
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eastvillage
Oct 10, 2005, 6:27 PM
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11mm
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johnhemlock
Oct 10, 2005, 6:28 PM
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Hi Mark,
I weigh 225 and think it depends on how hard you're going to beat your rope. My workhorse rope (sport and trad cragging) is a 9.9 Edelweiss and I climb alpine and ice with a 9.2 Mammut. I also climb low-mid 5th class alpine stuff with a single 8.6 or 9 on occasion to save weight on the approach.
Unless you're a sumo and plan on climbing in areas filled with sharp flakes, I think any rope on the market is plenty burly.
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caughtinside
Oct 10, 2005, 7:38 PM
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Your 10.5 is too big?
Yes, a 9.7 will work for you. But don't kid yourself. Your 10.5 works fine too. It isn't that heavy, and it's not the limiting factor in your leads. Not even close. It sounds like you're trying to justify buying new gear. Which is fine, but the difference between a 9.7 and a 10.5 isn't as big as people seem to think it is.
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mr_lemons
Oct 10, 2005, 7:42 PM
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climbing ropes don't break
seach it if you don't belive me...
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thrmaln
Oct 10, 2005, 7:59 PM
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Hey Mr Lemons,
I know I read somewhere that there had never been a reported case of a Dynamic rope breaking during a lead fall. If it is true, that is amazing. Anyway, while I doubt breakage would be an issue, durability would be as well as amount of falls at my weight. I belayed someone using a brand new Laser 9.6 and it was so slippery that I was caught off guard during a fall and lowering. However I was very new to climbing and did not expect the reduced friction form the smaller rope.
Best regards,
Marc Webster
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mr_lemons
Oct 10, 2005, 8:03 PM
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small rope when you need go light and a big one for working something... i was top roping with my 9.8 monster rope and i fell and decked because it streched so much... around 10 or 15 feet (didn't hurt, it was kinda slow) i'm around 170 ish
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boltdude
Oct 11, 2005, 5:20 AM
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Years ago PMI did a study with 90 and 100 kg test weights, and found that the number of falls held by ropes decreased dramatically compared to 80 kg test weights. And that was when 10.2mm was considered super skinny.
Considering that 220-230 is 100-105 kg, and that adding clothing, gear, etc could bring it to 110 (or more with a trad rack), I wouldn't even consider smaller than 10.5, and I'd strongly recommend 11mm.
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jderekforrester
Oct 11, 2005, 5:23 AM
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I am 6' 195 and there is nothing I like more than falling on my 1/2" static. The way your back realigns on each fall, wow, the feeling is indescribable.
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paulraphael
Oct 11, 2005, 6:00 AM
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In reply to: Considering that 220-230 is 100-105 kg, and that adding clothing, gear, etc could bring it to 110 (or more with a trad rack), I wouldn't even consider smaller than 10.5, and I'd strongly recommend 11mm.
I'd worry about this mostly if you work routes and take a lot of falls. If so, then go for a rope that holds a lot of them, regardless of how fat it is. If not, worry about other things ... like your gear placements, and your belayer's belay device.
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climbsomething
Oct 11, 2005, 6:04 AM
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In reply to: ...worry about other things ... like your gear placements, and your belayer's belay device. |
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papounet
Oct 11, 2005, 10:01 AM
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In reply to: Years ago PMI did a study with 90 and 100 kg test weights, and found that the number of falls held by ropes decreased dramatically compared to 80 kg test weights. And that was when 10.2mm was considered super skinny. Considering that 220-230 is 100-105 kg, and that adding clothing, gear, etc could bring it to 110 (or more with a trad rack), I wouldn't even consider smaller than 10.5, and I'd strongly recommend 11mm.
This is the most informative post, the rest is mere handwaiving.
The PMI is found easily using google
http://www.safeclimbing.org/..._Climbers_Beware.pdf
Regarding rope rupturing, UIAA reported in 2000 that there has not been a single case of an accident with a modern rope without an external factor such as prior damage or acute angle.
This is a very simple question (unlike others in the climbing world where "it depends" TM) for which some answers can be found.
Get your calculator or go to any fall simulator (I like the one from www.petzl.com)
plug in a ff 1 factor (10meters of rope out, and pro at 5m)
choose a rope and a belay device
run test with 80 kg, get numbers
run test with 110 kg, get numbers
compare
10.5 mm rope +grigri ff 1
80kg anchor 1043 DaN, climber 626 DaN
110kg, anchor 1253 DaN, 752 DaN
10.2 rope + grigri ff1
80kg anchor 917 DaN, climber 550 DaN
110kg, anchor 1106DaN, 664 DaN
even 10.5 in a ff1.78 fall + grigri
80kg anchor 1340 Dan climber 804 DaN
110kg anchor 1600 DaN climber 960 DaN
even 10.2 in a ff1.78 fall + grigri
80kg anchor 1171Dan climber 702 DaN
110kg anchor 1403 DaN climber 842 DaN
in fact, you'll get for any configuration with a ff 1
for a 37.5% increase in weight, a 20.7% increase in the forces felt at anchor, climber and belayer
for a ff .4 and 3 pro, an 22.6% increase
for a ff 1.78 with one piece of pro, a 19.4% increase
So, with any rope exceeding the UIAA norms, you'll be safe.
A thinner rope will give you a softer catch (duuhhhh) which will put less strain on anchors as well, but less soft and with more elongation than the same rope with a ligther guy.
when we consider multiples falls, the picture change.
a 110kg climber falling 5 meter above the last pro with 10 meters out (ff=1) on a 10.5 rope will generate a tension at the anchor of 1253 DaN,
a climber of 80kg would have to fall in a ff 1.53 fall to put as much strain on the rope
if a 80kg climber falling in a ff2 fall generate up to 1411DaN at the anchor and 847 DaN at the climber, a 110kg climber reach those values with a fall factor 1.32
Taking medium ff falls, a heavier climber will strain the rope as much as a ligher climber taking very large ff falls.
A beeffier rope with a high numbers of falls is thus to be considered.
If you are really into buying a skinny rope:
1. it won't stay supple if you take large falls onto it
whatever ropes you choose:
2. be prepared to change it more often than the regular guy
3. follow the advice of PMI regarding placing pro earlier and burlier
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redpoint73
Oct 11, 2005, 2:05 PM
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Stiffness is largely independent of rope diameter. How a rope handles is mostly dependent on how the sheath is woven. However, a softer hand also yields lower durability (while stiffer ropes wear longer). A decent compromise might be a rope close to 10 mm with a softer hand.
Beal ropes have a pretty soft hand, and Bluewater's ropes are pretty medium in stiffness. I have used the Bluewater Accelerator for some time now (3 ropes over the course of 9 years) for lots of working of sport routes, with no durability issues. The sheaths have fuzzed a bit, but no real wear to the sheath. No real troubles with rope drag with this rope, although I have to admit that skinny ropes are noticeably less draggy. Bluewater ropes tend to turn your hands black a bit more than other ropes.
I just looked at Bluewater's website and was surprised to see that my Accelerator is a 10.5 mm (haven't thought about this for some time). Maybe I should switch to something thinner! 8^)
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thrmaln
Oct 11, 2005, 3:09 PM
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Registered: Mar 4, 2005
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Hey Papounet,
Thanks for the incredibly detailed post. I have really received some great information from users here at RC.com and am very grateful. Anyway, I read the PMI article and it helped a lot. Especially in understanding fall factors. I was unaware that a FF of 2 was the max until I read how it is calculated. So the only way to get a 2FF would be to fall the entire length of the amount of rope out and the belay station would be the center of the arc or midpoint of fall. With that said, I see that I am most vulnerable to a 2FF fall when I am just starting the lead and even a relatively short fall that would cause me to pass my belayer would be far worse then a much longer fall when I have more rope out and my protection catches me. I had wrongly assumed the opposite. So am I to understand that even a huge whipper where say a piece of pro pulls and I am caught by the following piece would be a lower FF then the much smaller fall I mentioned above provided I had a good deal of rope out on the whipper. I suppose I will need to always make sure to get the first couple of pieces of pro in ASAP to avoid ever passing a belayer.
Another observation is that my rope will most likely not be my weakest link on a trad climb since a 1.7FF at my weight with gear would be very close (nearly 15kn) to the spec holding rating on most cams. On sport climbing I would most likely never reach enough force to pull an anchor, but rather snap a biner or break a gate. So my best bet is not to fall! LOL!
I have not taken a lead fall yet, but I know I will soon as I start to lead in the 5.10 range. My highest lead thus far is 5.9. I have only led one trad climb (5.2 to be cautious) but I plan to spend my winter working on more.
Thanks again to all who replied and I will probably choose a rope in the 10.0 to 10.5 range.
Best regards,
Marc Webster
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