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justsendingits
Oct 18, 2005, 2:29 AM
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News from the valley is that above pitch 5 all hangers have been removed and many bolts have been smashed.
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epic_ed
Oct 18, 2005, 2:50 AM
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Has Jim Beyer been in the area? Any other details about who or why?
Ed
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t-dog
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Oct 18, 2005, 2:52 AM
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weak sauce!
Stupid stuff like this is what gives climbers a bad name!
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dangle
Oct 18, 2005, 4:16 AM
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Weak sauce indeed t-dog. Sounds pretty foolish.
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timstich
Oct 18, 2005, 4:44 AM
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In reply to: weak sauce! Stupid stuff like this is what gives climbers a bad name!
I just read the Supertopo thread. Man, it's like a troll wrapped in a riddle inside on an enigma! So who knows what the hell is going on? Maybe nothing more than some fishing. Werner is on full Troll Alert and is asking for secret handshakes to confirm net identities.
And so the screw turns...
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justsendingits
Oct 18, 2005, 9:49 PM
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Lets hope it is a troll, but there was another post on ST that confirmed the bashing of bolts.
??????????
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justsendingits
Oct 18, 2005, 9:52 PM
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This post is from the ST thread, great post!!
Re: Alert!!! Tangerine Trip Oct 18, 2005, 12:27pm PST
Author:
Mike.
climber
From: FWIW, the hardware on P6 was (before the 3/8" bolts went in) 1/4" bolts, some with hangers, some screw-tops without hangers.
I don't have a problem with someone replacing quarter-inch bolts with something that will last longer. The security of a decent quarter inch bolt/hanger is pretty good (I've whipped on them for years), as is a fattie (obviously). The main dif to me is the amount of time time between re-bolting; quarter inchers go south in 35 years or much less while 3/8" SS might last fifty years (more?) in YV.
As long as a bolt (in the climbing sense--with hanger or a hanger-able threaded stud) is not being used where a true rivet (buttonhead, machine bolt w/ hex head) is, I say it's good. On routes like the Trip and WFLT, the time-bomb ladders became the route cruxes, which to my mind is silly. I do draw a distinction between less- and more-travelled routes--I propose this upgrade rationale for trade routes only (as indefinite as that distiction truly is).
WFLT was rebolted using 3/8" SS where 1/4" bolts/hangers used to be. Based on the rationale of the vandalism on the Trip (if true), WFLT should also be targeted. Aside from poor effort put forth to re-use holes, I think the replacement on P6 was a re-bolt and not a retro-bolt.
I'd like to hear what people think about this upgrade rationale. Some people (a distinct minority) have expressed to me that they like and want to clip ancient, original mank. The vast majority express appreciation of the better bolt (on trade routes). What say you?
PS: Kate, some ride. Really good to know you're okay.
PPS: Like in the Hotrod thread, it doesn't matter if someone is playing imposter or trolling. Good dialog about legit issues can and does come of these threads. Thanks for all input.
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moonshine505
Oct 18, 2005, 10:23 PM
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Ironic to hear trad climbers indignation that bolts have been REMOVED, your MO is usually eschew bolts as "fluffy" worthy only of weak sauced sport climbers. I can certainly see how bolts suddenly missing could cause a safety issue, but aside from this I'm amused.
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justsendingits
Oct 18, 2005, 10:27 PM
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Trad climbers?? try AID climbers!!
And the bolts in question cross blank rock!!
Ever climbed a big wall??
El cap is a giant chunk of rock,not some hat.
With 3,000 + ft. of rock to climb,you will encounter some blank sections!!
go back to your 35ft climbs sport boy!!
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moonshine505
Oct 18, 2005, 11:01 PM
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I'm laughing even harder now :lol:
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justsendingits
Oct 18, 2005, 11:10 PM
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You are in the Aid climbing forum,you do know that right?
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vegastradguy
Oct 18, 2005, 11:37 PM
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In reply to: Ironic to hear trad climbers indignation that bolts have been REMOVED, your MO is usually eschew bolts as "fluffy" worthy only of weak sauced sport climbers. I can certainly see how bolts suddenly missing could cause a safety issue, but aside from this I'm amused.
interesting that you should say that. you know, before there was sport climbing, there was just 'climbing'. sometimes 'climbing' required bolts.
trad climbers dont eschew bolts as 'fluffy,' we view them as a tool in the toolkit, to be used when and if necessary- and not otherwise.
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flamer
Oct 18, 2005, 11:38 PM
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In reply to: Ironic to hear trad climbers indignation that bolts have been REMOVED, your MO is usually eschew bolts as "fluffy" worthy only of weak sauced sport climbers. I can certainly see how bolts suddenly missing could cause a safety issue, but aside from this I'm amused.
If you really think this than you have no clue......and you make it so easy to see!!!!
If the TT rumours are true...well it just sucks.
I certainly hope it wasn't who I think it might have been...I'm sure there will be some fingers pointed at several indviduals who've been talking about going up there to "clean it up" ala' Zodiac...however I personally don't think they would do it...
josh
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epic_ed
Oct 18, 2005, 11:42 PM
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In reply to: Ironic to hear trad climbers indignation that bolts have been REMOVED, your MO is usually eschew bolts as "fluffy" worthy only of weak sauced sport climbers. I can certainly see how bolts suddenly missing could cause a safety issue, but aside from this I'm amused.
You are so far out in "I-don't-know-what-the-fuck-I'm-talking-about" land that you have no hope of participating in the discussion. Aiding through a rivet ladder is nothing remotely close to "safe" and is no where near comparable to sport climbing. I'd be happy to show you the difference some time if you're ever in AZ.
Ed
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justsendingits
Oct 18, 2005, 11:50 PM
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those rivets on Zenith and Liberty cap were more like, well, A hard!!
I did not even clip most of them,due to the fact they would rip if i fell.
Then I would spend most of the day replacing or bat hooking back up.
good times!!
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reno
Oct 19, 2005, 12:07 AM
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In reply to: Ironic to hear sporto climbers spray garbage when they enter a forum about AID climbing... your MO is usually eschew AID climbing as "cheating" worthy only of fat, out of shape climbers who can't do sport routes. I can certainly admit that I am far out of my realm of experience here, but I wanted to spray some crap anyway, just to stir the pot. I'll go back to my single pitch, ten move wonder routes now, and tell myself how good I am, so you can all be amused.
I fixed your post for you.
No need to thank me.
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philbox
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Oct 19, 2005, 1:05 AM
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reno, please reedit moonshines quoted text to return it to the original wording. Misquoting someone is verbotten. They own the copyright to their words out here in userland unlike the community forum where you can pretty much do what you like.
PM will also follow.
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dingus
Oct 19, 2005, 1:28 AM
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In reply to: reno, please reedit moonshines quoted text to return it to the original wording. Misquoting someone is verbotten. They own the copyright to their words out here in userland unlike the community forum where you can pretty much do what you like. PM will also follow.
I don't understand this post. Did reno post to this thread?
DMT
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philbox
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Oct 19, 2005, 1:31 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: reno, please reedit moonshines quoted text to return it to the original wording. Misquoting someone is verbotten. They own the copyright to their words out here in userland unlike the community forum where you can pretty much do what you like. PM will also follow. I don't understand this post. Did reno post to this thread? DMT
Yep, reno decided to delete the post. If you hadn`t quoted me I would have deleted my post as well which would clean up this thread and make it more readable and thus prevent a hijack.
I`ll now return you to your regularly scheduled program. Nothing to see here folks, move along. :)
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areuinclimber
Oct 19, 2005, 1:36 AM
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its a troll. i doubt anyone is smashing bolts on the trip. anyone wanna go climb it and find out?
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areyoumydude
Oct 19, 2005, 1:52 AM
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In reply to: Aiding through a rivet ladder is nothing remotely close to "safe" and is no where near comparable to sport climbing. Ed
It is if they are replaced with 3/8 inch bolts! :evil:
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ricardol
Oct 19, 2005, 7:00 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Aiding through a rivet ladder is nothing remotely close to "safe" and is no where near comparable to sport climbing. Ed It is if they are replaced with 3/8 inch bolts! :evil:
true -- true ..
there is (or was) nothing scary about the tangerine trip bolt ladders (can't call them rivet ladders) ..
.. if someone smashed them up -- i hope they are replaced with true rivets .. just buttonheads + washers ..
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lambone
Oct 19, 2005, 7:10 PM
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It's a shame that they were placed as they were in the first place, but it's a double shame if they were smashed, because it will liely be a permenant scar on the stone. Those fat 3/8" bolts will be nearly imossible to remove, and more new holes will need to be drilled.
I look forward to finding out if this is bullshit or not.
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flamer
Oct 19, 2005, 7:34 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Aiding through a rivet ladder is nothing remotely close to "safe" and is no where near comparable to sport climbing. Ed It is if they are replaced with 3/8 inch bolts! :evil: true -- true .. there is (or was) nothing scary about the tangerine trip bolt ladders (can't call them rivet ladders) .. .. if someone smashed them up -- i hope they are replaced with true rivets .. just buttonheads + washers ..
As was quoted from supertopo inthis thread....they were not originally rivit ladders...they were bolt ladders. Replacing a 1/4 inch rusted ass old bolt with a 3/8 new SS bolt is just common sense.
Rivit replacement is a different animal entirely......but I have to ask can you really replace a rivit? Seems to me you'll be drilling a new hole. I understand and agree with the rationale behind not replacing rivit with fatty bolts....but what happens when said rivit is trashed over ripped from the rock(ala' kate)??? Do we leave holes that we hope to bathook? Most folks agree that bathooking isn't cool......do we drill a new hole for a new rivit? Do we try and use the same obviously shitty hole?
These qeustion's are not easily answered.....
josh
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