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zao479
Oct 25, 2005, 3:02 AM
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This weekend I was at the rendezvous at Horse Shoe Canyon Ranch. The weather was perfect, the rocks were perfect, and everyone had a good time. The only thing that got to me were the kids and the dogs. Don't get me wrong I think its cool if you want to bring along the next generation and I like to take my dog to the rock, but there has to be some boundaries. We cant have kids and dogs fighting and playing in other peoples gear and around belays.
Complete the sentence and give us your thought, rants, and raves.
If your gonna bring your dog/kid to the crag...
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thomaskeefer
Oct 25, 2005, 3:07 AM
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Rants about dogs are understandable.. they can piss on your gear or steal your lunch.. rants about kids.. lighten up. They have just as much right to be where they are as you do..
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climbsomething
Oct 25, 2005, 3:29 AM
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Dogs and human children are not the same, and actually, BOTH have a right to be there, but no creature, canine or human of any age, has any "right" to be obnoxious or in harm's way. Both should be well behaved and kept under control. I have been just as annoyed by screaming kids running around under the belay and pitching rocks and crap, as I have been fighting, yapping or nosy dogs. A 7 year old child is smarter than a puppy and deservedly higher on the food chain, but they're both still babies and need discipline. That's all up to the grownups they answer to.
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bigevilgrape
Oct 25, 2005, 3:31 AM
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In reply to: Rants about dogs are understandable.. they can piss on your gear or steal your lunch.. rants about kids.. lighten up. They have just as much right to be where they are as you do..
Uhhh exept for when people dont watch their kids and they start chucking rocks down from an upper terrecy section, or from the top of the cliff. Or when the kids are screaming and tired and should be at home sleeping after a long day, but i'm still trying to climb.
dogs need to either be the type to stay near you, or on a leash. THere is a dog at rumney that likes to take off across the street, play in the river, and harass the donkey. ANd then people wonder why the locals hate us?
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treez
Oct 25, 2005, 3:41 AM
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If you're gonna bring your dog to the crag, make sure it has a cool name and is wearing at least one biner.
If you're gonna bring your kid to the crag, be sure to deck it out in mini patagucci wear and feed it organic juice boxes.
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risos
Oct 25, 2005, 3:48 AM
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Sheeeshshshsh here we go again, soon someone will start saying how dogs should be sacrifized if they piss on your gear and how lawsuits will start falling on you for bringing your pet to the crags.
People its a trend every few weeks this comes up. Keep your dog on a leash, that is very simple and easy to do.
Kids have as much a right to be there but I think its sensible to ask the parents to keep them away from other belayers just for the simple reason of SAFETY. We dont want them steping on our gear and we wouldnt want anything falling on them, quit the we have or dont have the right to have or not have..... just be reasonable.
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cam
Oct 25, 2005, 3:48 AM
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I think that should read, dog(s) and kid(s). Remember that Seinfeld episode where some couple kept saying "ya gotta come see the baayybeee. When are ya gonna come see the baayybeee?" Yeah, that hit it right in the head. Other people do not necessarily think your kids are as adorable and precious as you do.
So to complete the sentence in the OP ...tie them up!
cam out.
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squierbypetzl
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Oct 25, 2005, 5:09 AM
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Pets I´m Ok with, even if I have to wrestle your damn chihuahua for the only sandwich I´ve had in 3 days.
But please people! Keeps your durned kids on a leash (though I´ve never had a kid pee on my gear before).
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vicsai11
Oct 25, 2005, 5:16 AM
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I was at city of rocks this weekend and enjoyed listening to someone's crying baby for three hours at elephant rock! it was insanely annoying.. on top of that they had three dogs running around bothering everyone else! i'm sorry but not everyone likes dogs running up to them and not everyone likes crying babies..
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philbox
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Oct 25, 2005, 5:23 AM
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I`ve got only one thing to say about a dog sniffing around my gear. Set of hexes, end of problem.
On the other hand you can`t use that tactic on a kid snuffling around in my gear. That problem becomes the parents problem. You see I won`t direct my ire towards the kid I will direct it towards said urchins parents however. So in one respect the set of hexes still holds true for either problem. :lol:
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thetroutscout
Oct 25, 2005, 5:33 AM
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Yeah, its a pain when people bring their kids and they get bored and sit there and scream. This selfish parent then lets the rest of the rock deal with their responsibility. One time this guy came up with his crawling baby, laid out his blanket and then traversed out of sight. I watched as his baby crawled off his blanket and into the dirt. I yelled out to him, "hey, your baby just crawled into the dirty." He replied, "yeah, he likes the dirt." I wish mom had been there to hear that one...
I love dogs and good behavior for a dog is subjective. I know some dogs that if they don't rip your leg off they are displaying good behavior. Probably the most bothersome thing at crags are the drunken, vulgar spouting neighbors that always seem to rope up next to me. I'm always friendly and up for a chat but I hate a greeting strung full of profanity, laced with rock climbing infused lingo that neither of us really understands.
^^ike
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iowanclimber
Oct 25, 2005, 6:02 AM
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hey man, i climb at HCR alot, live near Springfield, and i think HCR has rules that dogs have to be on a leash because of the goat herding dogs (basically because the goat herding dogs are trained to kill your dog and/or coyotes)....
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ebersoless
Oct 25, 2005, 6:16 AM
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Bear Spray - Obedience Training and Parenting Skills in an easily portable applicator.
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overlord
Oct 25, 2005, 6:25 AM
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In reply to: I watched as his baby crawled off his blanket and into the dirt. I yelled out to him, "hey, your baby just crawled into the dirty." He replied, "yeah, he likes the dirt." I wish mom had been there to hear that one...
theres nothing catastrophic with a kid getting a little dirty&co.
anyway, both kids and dogs at the crag should be well behaved and should under no circumstances put themselves or others in danger.
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zao479
Oct 25, 2005, 2:03 PM
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I'm sick of hearing every one argue about their rights. It is never your right to impose on other people. If you disagree then you might want to look around because I would bet that your friends are tiered of picking you up all the time.
If your headed to your local crag on a Tuesday, that is one thing. But when you know that there are going to be 300+ at the ranch that weekend you have to alter you thinking. When its crazy busy you need to leave the dog, the kid, the pot, and the expletives at home. If this is in no way possible then you need to stay home. It's not your right to be selfish and to enjoy your day at the expense of others.
It's not about what will happen, it's about what could happen. I just don't think that the reward is worth the risk.
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bbrock
Oct 25, 2005, 2:13 PM
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Ah the dog arguement. Sometimes dogs are anoying, but lets face it people are much more so. People say hey your dog is digging or sh@ting or barking or whatever. I guess there saying my dog is ruining the place. Lets take a look at people. What about the bolts on the rock, the trail leading to the rock, the road leading to the trail, the toilet, the parking lot, the garbage. How much gas did you burn to get to the crag. How much trash did you throw away this week. We are all parasites and are ruining the place not the dogs. My dog has much more of a right to be there than people.
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paganmonkeyboy
Oct 25, 2005, 2:21 PM
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...make sure the kid stays away from rattlesnakes. I was at the tropics a few years back, before they were cemented under to make a new dam at horsetooth - mom and dad are climbing, little 4 yr old girl just wandering around playing in the dirt...suddenly we hear her shriek, a *LOUD* rattler starts hissing and making noise...a bunch of us jumped off the rocks and started running towards her - this guy got there first, grabbed her and kept running (a thousand kudos to that dude...damn...), totally saved someone else's kid that Wasn't Paying Attention...
I don't care if your kid makes noise. Don't let them get hurt (and don't just smile at me when your dog eats my lunch...offer me some of your food :) )
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photon
Oct 25, 2005, 2:22 PM
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"When its crazy busy you need to leave the dog, the kid, the pot, and the expletives at home. If this is in no way possible then you need to stay home. It's not your right to be selfish and to enjoy your day at the expense of others. "
Maybe you should just stay home instead of dictating who should be at the crags and what they should say. Is there a reason you belong there more than anyone else.? I certainly don't enjoy being at the crag around little hitlers like yourself, so take your own advice, if it's going to be super crowded stay at home and play with your woodie or build a training wall.
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j_ung
Oct 25, 2005, 2:24 PM
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You have the right to free speech, to worship whatever god (or not) you choose, etc. You have no right not be annoyed by kids and dogs.
I bring my well-behaved dog out all the time and if for some reason I can't control her, I remove her. That's called courtesy and it has nothing to do with rights.
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sarcat
Oct 25, 2005, 2:27 PM
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If you bring your kids to the crag and they are bothering others then they aren't climbing. How come the parents don't have harness for them and aren't teaching/letting them climb? I have 4 kids and they all climb. If I want serious climbing for myself the kids stay home. I don't fell the crag is a very good babysitter and it's not the responsibility of others to watch my kids especially when they are belaying.
As for dogs. For all the years I've been climbing only once did a dog tick us off. That's good odds for the dozens of other dogs that were well behaved. The one that wasn't we asked the owner to tie it up and he did.
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starkcontrast
Oct 25, 2005, 2:39 PM
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here is a funny story: this guy insisted on taking me trad climbing at an area near the gunks in spite of me having not tying in for over four years. he brings his four year old with him. the kid was ok for the most part, but the guy gets on lead and then backs off the first route. he encourages me to finish the route. i tied in and after determining his gear was ok, led up to the point where he came down. at that point i was encountering a eight foot roof with a old rp fixed in the only spot that would hold pro. thankfully, the horizontal at the base of the roof had bomber gear. i proceeded out the roof and realized quickly i had chosen a bad sequence. i weighted the rp which held, and then tried again. after pulling the the v5 boulder problem roof and accessing the next horizontal, i realized it wouldn't hold gear. in fact, the entire headwall above the roof was devoid of pro and required some dicey footwork to climb. obviously i made it to the anchors. when i reached the top the guy started hooting that he had never seen anyone do the route before. i late found out it was a Russ Raffa 5.12x route called "hell is real". the best part of the story... i reached the ground thirsty and with thick cotton mouth only to find the guy's son had poured out all the water from my three water bottles. moral: keep your kids on a leash at the crag.
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cowpoke
Oct 25, 2005, 2:57 PM
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my kids and dog are perfect crag citizens...it's everyone else's kids and dogs that are bad. not to mention all the inconsiderate "adult" climbers getting in my way, stepping on my rope, leaving power bar wrappers and tape wads all over, and peeing and pooing all around my crag. just joshin' (kinda).
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bigevilgrape
Oct 25, 2005, 2:59 PM
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In reply to: You have the right to free speech, to worship whatever god (or not) you choose, etc. You have no right not be annoyed by kids and dogs. I bring my well-behaved dog out all the time and if for some reason I can't control her, I remove her. That's called courtesy and it has nothing to do with rights.
that doesnt mean its common curtesy to not bring your dog to the crag when it cant behave itself without annoying other people, or to bring your kids home if they are either too wound up to behave properly, or overly tired and shoulld go home (or someone to sit with them for a while so theyh can take a nap) Nor does it mean I dont have the right to ask polietly for you to tie your dog up, or to please keep your kids from throwing rock.
I also think people *cough*collegroups*cough* who might be new to the sport under control. I refused to climb with our college outing club last year because the PRESIDENT was loud and obnoxious, I had a friend from another school talk to me about him after a trip I wasnt on. So if you're bringing n00bs to the crag, try and keep them under control too ;) A nice talk about climbing ettiquette can go a long way.
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zao479
Oct 25, 2005, 3:04 PM
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What is more fun than dogs and kids? If they are behaved then bring them along. My only beef is when 4yr old kids are climbing boulders with out supervision, and when the dogs are overly aggressive or when either is digging through peoples stuff and running under belays. Climbing requires too much focus for all that.
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