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chh


Oct 25, 2005, 8:09 AM
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I've had many an outdoors trip (climbing and otherwise) enriched by the presence of a well trained dog. And for the most part where I climb the dogs are all very well behaved, having been presumably raised in the environment.

However, climbing a route with my partner once we ran into a party with a very poorly behaved pit bull. 4 or so of them walked past us to get to a couple of bolted routes next door. Having had the crag to ourselves for the whole day up to that point, we'd left some draws hanging on a branch by these routes. After rapping off our route we went back to retrieve our gear. The Pit was NOT on a leash, showing both of us his teeth, growling, and just being generally aggressive when I got anywhere near him (which I had to in order to get my gear). One of the party, on belay and not able to do sh*t about the dog was half heartedly saying over her shoulder, "Oh he's ok."
Which isn't what the dog was telling me.....

I love most of the dogs I meet outdoors, but have also met a few mean or just plain annoying ones. I don't think the distinction between an animal that is well behaved enough to bring, and one that isn't, is that difficult to see. But, sometimes you meet people who can't, or choose not to, make this call because lets face it, having a dog is SO COOL! :roll:

Kids I don't have a problem with mostly because they won't take a chunk of flesh out of you if they are angry. But that story about the little girl and the rattler? :shock: I'm glad someone snatched her up.


leinosaur


Oct 25, 2005, 8:13 AM
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starkcontrast, that exact same thing happened to me!

but seriously . . .

If you're gonna bring your kid to the crag, READ:

Familes Rock (good article by mother_sheep re. climbing w/kids).
http://www.rockclimbing.com/articles/?id=2026

It goes beyond the OBVIOUS principle of respecting others' climbing/gear space and gives thoughtful perspective re. the kids' relationship to climbing, encouraging w/o pushing etc.

Good stuff.

Oh, and here's a pic of the article's author, just because:
http://groups.msn.com/...=4675541195774416833


markc


Oct 25, 2005, 8:16 AM
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If you're going to bring your dog(s) or kid(s) to the crag, make sure you have at least one extra adult on the ground at all times (belayers don't count). If the child or animal needs attention, there will be someone available immediately without any impact on the climber or belayer.

Know when to go home. You have to be prepared to go when the first person is ready, not when the last person has had their fill for the day. Taking multiple cars and a wealth of gear can be a good strategy. The parents/owners can gracefully duck out without impacting anyone else's day.

If I have my dog tied to a tree out of the way, ask if you can pet him. I'm going to tell you no, which is for your own good. My dog wants to chew a stick and enjoy the sun, not meet new people. He doesn't like new people. If I tell you to stop approaching my dog repeatedly and you insist on backing him into a tree, don't complain when he eventually scares you off. You are an ass. You fail to grasp a concept children readily accept.


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 8:40 AM
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I'm sick of hearing every one argue about their rights. It is never your right to impose on other people. If you disagree then you might want to look around because I would bet that your friends are tiered of picking you up all the time.
If your headed to your local crag on a Tuesday, that is one thing. But when you know that there are going to be 300+ at the ranch that weekend you have to alter you thinking. When its crazy busy you need to leave the dog, the kid, the pot, and the expletives at home. If this is in no way possible then you need to stay home. It's not your right to be selfish and to enjoy your day at the expense of others.
It's not about what will happen, it's about what could happen. I just don't think that the reward is worth the risk.

Guess what dude? You are living in my world. If you happen to be at a crag I am at, you get to deal with it. If you don't like it leave. That is how it is.


greengoblin


Oct 25, 2005, 8:50 AM
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HCR is a pretty big place. Chill out. I'm sure you were once an obnoxious seven year old at one time. If you don't like the atmosphere in one area, move to another.


justsaynototake


Oct 25, 2005, 8:55 AM
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[quote="risos"]Sheeeshshshsh here we go again, soon someone will start saying how dogs should be sacrifized if they piss on your gear and how lawsuits will start falling on you for bringing your pet to the crags. [/quote="risos"]

Speaking of which, who wants to meet up for a dog sacrifice. I'll bring the BarBQ sauce!
:lol:

Seriously speaking though. I agree, dogs although they have a right to be there in the philosophical sense, they should be well trained just to be courteous to your fellow climbers. On the other hand, I get very irritated when parents bring children and they don't bring helmets for them to wear. It's cool that they bring the kids out because everyone should be able to enjoy being outside. But it is just plain irresponsible to put a kid's life in danger, especially if they don't understand the danger that they could be in, fully.
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zao479


Oct 25, 2005, 8:57 AM
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Guess what dude? You are living in my world. If you happen to be at a crag I am at, you get to deal with it. If you don't like it leave. That is how it is.

:cry:I'm sorry that your family didn't hold you enough when you were a kid, but it is time that you deal with these issues of inferiority that cause you to be overly aggressive and defensive. I think you should seek professional help for such a case, and might I suggest the n00b.

Just remember YOU are not the world WE are the world. We are the children(all be it well behaved and respectful children.) ... sing along every one... :o


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 9:10 AM
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Guess what dude? You are living in my world. If you happen to be at a crag I am at, you get to deal with it. If you don't like it leave. That is how it is.

:cry:I'm sorry that your family didn't hold you enough when you were a kid, but it is time that you deal with these issues of inferiority that cause you to be overly aggressive and defensive. I think you should seek professional help for such a case, and might I suggest the n00b.

Just remember YOU are not the world WE are the world. We are the children(all be it well behaved and respectful children.) ... sing along every one... :o

Still my world and whatever you say is not going to change my mind. Your post is nOOb-ish at best. How many times has then been beat on in the forums? Real original. :boring:
What you are complaining about is how you think it should be. Sorry things don't work the way you think it should. If you want to go to a crag where kids and dogs are allowed, then you have to accept it. Make your choice. Either deal with it or leave. In fact, are you sure climbing is the right sport for you?


tradgal


Oct 25, 2005, 9:15 AM
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I watched a kid (10 years old?) poop in the middle of a trail in a crowded area. Later, a women stepped in the pooh. My dog is smart enough not to pooh in the trail! TRUE STORY.

Point being, shit happens. There will always be things in the world that bother us, make us laugh, make us happy. But, you can't get every you want. The question should be, if you are going to go to the crag, what will you do to prepare yourself in case a dog is there, a child is there, that annoying guy from the gym is there?


lajhanata


Oct 25, 2005, 9:17 AM
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For me the first issue is safety. Put a bucket on those kids and keep them out from under climbing lines (falling on a kid or dog sucks for everyone). Also, I'm not really into breaking up dog fights or being attacked. If I get attacked, I may end up hurting your dog, and guess who's paying my hospital bill...

The thing that sketches me the most is kids below me when I'm bouldering, or placing the first gear. We're all there to have fun and no one wants something nasty to happen. Things are almost always cool. BTW, I definitely avoid crowded crags as a personal thing. There's always somewhere else to climb.


zao479


Oct 25, 2005, 9:23 AM
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How many times has then been beat on in the forums? Real original. How extremely interesting.

Are you sure that posting is the right thing for you?! And I see that you have found your sport. :shock: Good luck with that.

I will humbly admit that I nor anyone else at this sight get the same envious props from Sharma and the like that you receive on a daily basis. If my lack of 5.27 skills makes me a n00b then so be it. I'll take your hit if you take mine.

Your screw the world attitude makes you one of two things: 17yrs old and a punk, or 28 and sadly living at mom's.


mcfoley


Oct 25, 2005, 9:38 AM
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If your gonna bring your dog to the crag be prepared to bring home a limping dog if he get's into my shit...

If your gonna bring your kid to the crag...teach your kids to repect others belongings and "SPACE".


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 9:38 AM
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Your screw the world attitude makes you one of two things: 17yrs old and a punk, or 28 and sadly living at mom's.

Ooh, ooh, ooh, you are sooooo close. Boy you sure are good at these generalizations. :roll:

Actually I was thinking your posts made you a kid who could only play outside with a helmet on, or a janitor who likes to feel like someone is actually listening to what they have to say...


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 9:43 AM
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For me the first issue is safety. Put a bucket on those kids and keep them out from under climbing lines (falling on a kid or dog sucks for everyone). Also, I'm not really into breaking up dog fights or being attacked. If I get attacked, I may end up hurting your dog, and guess who's paying my hospital bill...

Keeping anyone out from underneath a climb is a good idea. I certainly hope climbers are not falling on a dog or kid underneath a climb. Decking sucks. Rockfall from climbing activities is a very real danger at most crags.
If my dog or any dog attacks you, the owner is definitely responsible for your injuries and hospital bills. I can agree with that.


b_rock


Oct 25, 2005, 9:47 AM
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Make sure that they are both well behaved, I had a dog that I would never have taken to the crag as he was a maniac, my present dog Pedro or the P-Diddy as she is known on the streets finds a bit of shade lays down and sleeps until I am ready to leave. Oh and bring a bag to clean up after them.


crimpandgo


Oct 25, 2005, 9:50 AM
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I'm sick of hearing every one argue about their rights. It is never your right to impose on other people. If you disagree then you might want to look around because I would bet that your friends are tiered of picking you up all the time.
If your headed to your local crag on a Tuesday, that is one thing. But when you know that there are going to be 300+ at the ranch that weekend you have to alter you thinking. When its crazy busy you need to leave the dog, the kid, the pot, and the expletives at home. If this is in no way possible then you need to stay home. It's not your right to be selfish and to enjoy your day at the expense of others.
It's not about what will happen, it's about what could happen. I just don't think that the reward is worth the risk.

Guess what dude? You are living in my world. If you happen to be at a crag I am at, you get to deal with it. If you don't like it leave. That is how it is.

You are right dude, You do have the right to be at the crag. You even have the right to do whatever you want. Just hope you are prepared for the other people to do whatever they want. If you let your dog dig in someone elses pack, be prepared for the consequences. You are infringing on their personal property and they have the right to protect that property. And if you confront them yourself, they have the right to protect themselves as well. Its called self defense. So, why not go to the crag and have fun instead of creating a selfish controversy. Eh? Put your dog on a leash. Its better for everyone, including yourself


Partner j_ung


Oct 25, 2005, 10:15 AM
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You have the right to free speech, to worship whatever god (or not) you choose, etc. You have no right not be annoyed by kids and dogs.

I bring my well-behaved dog out all the time and if for some reason I can't control her, I remove her. That's called courtesy and it has nothing to do with rights.

that doesnt mean its common curtesy to not bring your dog to the crag when it cant behave itself without annoying other people, or to bring your kids home if they are either too wound up to behave properly, or overly tired and shoulld go home (or someone to sit with them for a while so theyh can take a nap) Nor does it mean I dont have the right to ask polietly for you to tie your dog up, or to please keep your kids from throwing rock.

What? That's... what I said. Or at least what I meant. It has nothing to do with "rights". Rather, it's all about "courtesy". Perhaps not common courtesy, but courtesy, nonetheless.


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 10:17 AM
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I'm sick of hearing every one argue about their rights. It is never your right to impose on other people. If you disagree then you might want to look around because I would bet that your friends are tiered of picking you up all the time.
If your headed to your local crag on a Tuesday, that is one thing. But when you know that there are going to be 300+ at the ranch that weekend you have to alter you thinking. When its crazy busy you need to leave the dog, the kid, the pot, and the expletives at home. If this is in no way possible then you need to stay home. It's not your right to be selfish and to enjoy your day at the expense of others.
It's not about what will happen, it's about what could happen. I just don't think that the reward is worth the risk.

Guess what dude? You are living in my world. If you happen to be at a crag I am at, you get to deal with it. If you don't like it leave. That is how it is.

You are right dude, You do have the right to be at the crag. You even have the right to do whatever you want. Just hope you are prepared for the other people to do whatever they want. If you let your dog dig in someone elses pack, be prepared for the consequences. You are infringing on their personal property and they have the right to protect that property. And if you confront them yourself, they have the right to protect themselves as well. Its called self defense. So, why not go to the crag and have fun instead of creating a selfish controversy. Eh? Put your dog on a leash. Its better for everyone, including yourself

Not that my dog or kid (since this about kids too) would dig in your pack. If you choose to confront me about it, I also have the right to protect myself. It's still called self defense, even if my dog did shit on your pb&j.
Who has fun at the crag? No one on this thread judging by the posts.


Hook, line, and sinker....


Partner j_ung


Oct 25, 2005, 10:20 AM
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I can't believe I got sucked into this topic. Everything... EVERYTHING... written in this thread has been hashed and rehashed several times before, if you really want to participate, just read one or two the redundant dog and child threads below. It's all been said... including what I just wrote. :x


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 10:28 AM
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I can't believe I got sucked into this topic. Everything... EVERYTHING... written in this thread has been hashed and rehashed several times before, if you really want to participate, just read one or two the redundant dog and child threads below. It's all been said... including what I just wrote. :x

Yeah? Well what about those who bring their whiney little significant others to the crag? That really annoys the crap out of me. They should leave them at home. I am so sick of hearing, "I can't" or "I have to hike all the way up there?" or "I don't want to let go!". At least snap a muzzle on them... :twisted:


zao479


Oct 25, 2005, 10:29 AM
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I can't believe I got sucked into this topic. Everything... EVERYTHING... written in this thread has been hashed and rehashed several times before, if you really want to participate, just read one or two the redundant dog and child threads below. It's all been said... including what I just wrote. :x
The more things change...

What is the lesser evil: Repeating a previously mentioned topic, or resurrecting old threads?

My next thread is either going to be about shoes or crash pads.


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 10:36 AM
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My next thread is either going to be about shoes or crash pads.

Now that is funny... :lol:


zao479


Oct 25, 2005, 10:36 AM
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Yeah? Well what about those who bring their whiney little significant others to the crag? That really annoys the crap out of me. They should leave them at home. I am so sick of hearing, "I can't" or "I have to hike all the way up there?" or "I don't want to let go!". At least snap a muzzle on them... :twisted:

Finally we have agreed, but what about; "These shoes hurt my feet", and "I need gloves."


mushroomcloud_2


Oct 25, 2005, 10:43 AM
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What about cats? I've seen them at the crag frolicking around. They get into packs AND the can climb. I about $%^* myself once when a cat pounced next to me while I was climbing. The cat itself didn't scare me it was the anaphylactic shock that I was more concerned about. Allergic reactions really suck when your climbing.


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 10:47 AM
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What about cats? I've seen them at the crag frolicking around. They get into packs AND the can climb. I about $%^* myself once when a cat pounced next to me while I was climbing. The cat itself didn't scare me it was the anaphylactic shock that I was more concerned about. Allergic reactions really suck when your climbing.

And don't even get me started about lobsters...

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