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davido


Oct 26, 2005, 9:02 PM
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Red Rocks rack
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I am looking for some advice on what I should bring, rack wise, to red rocks early Nov. I've heard that there is fairly decent easy multiptich trad and am interested in checking some out in addition to the usual sport.

So, what should I bring?

I currently have a more or less full set of DMM cams, doubles of blue, yellow, and green aliens, nuts, hexes, etc. Should I get something larger than my DMMs will cover? Are two ropes useful or will 99% of what I am tackling need only one to rap?

Anybody interested in showing some foreigners around?


pk


Oct 26, 2005, 9:14 PM
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Doubles up to a #3 camalot a number 4 and 5 are really nice to have on alot of routes out here. HB offsets! I never used em much until I got some out here they are a gem.

Runners! lots of routes wander. some people carry double ropes to deal with the rope drag. One 60m rope if you don't have double is sufficient for most of the stuff out here.

My rack normally consists oh 2 sets of stoppers doubles on camalots to #3 one (or two pending on the route) #4's a number 5 that normally stays on the ground, a full set of aliens and offsets.

I've got alot more gear for aid and what not but that's normally what I bring out for a single climb out here. If your climbing harder than 10's trad you might wanna ask someone who climbs harder than me.

I know on a recent FA that vegastradguy put up ( a song and a prayer 10b I think ) he recommends lowe balls for some of the sketchy run out sections he ran into.

P.K.


vegastradguy


Oct 26, 2005, 9:42 PM
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pk's rack is similar to mine, although i have been known to carry other unusual items for routes here and there, standard gear will get you by on about 99% of the classics.

sounds like your rack will be just fine. I think the DMM #4 is roughly equivalent to the BD #3- so make sure you bring that one along. If you dont have it, i'd recommend picking one up.

Two ropes can be extremely helpful- those multipitch routes that you need to rappel are almost always double rope rappels. of course, there is also a large selection of routes with walk-offs....just depends on what you climb.

my rule on road-trips? bring it all- then you have options.

if you need any suggestions or beta, feel free to pm me- i've been around for a few years now and am fairly familiar with most of the moderate classics in the area.


davido


Oct 26, 2005, 9:46 PM
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Thank you guys, you've provided me with much more information than I had hoped for! I'm not really bold enough to be leading trad on anything in the 5.9+ range yet... And it remains to be seen how the grades match up with Squamish, so we'll see. I've just been told to not look at it as a purely sport venue as there are supposed to be some classic easy multipitches for gear. Between my partner and I we should be fine with doubles on all the DMMs and a fairly decent small rack... BUT - you've sold me on picking up at least a #4 Camalot...

Ah, gear shopping!


vegastradguy


Oct 26, 2005, 9:50 PM
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well, a #4 DMM, anyway- that's a fist sized piece and almost indispensable here.

that said, i almost always carry a #4 BD here- the weird nature of the rock can make it a very handy piece to have. although, most folks get by without one on most routes- something about it being heavy. (the new C4 is a nice compromise- significantly lighter and a tad smaller than the old #4)


pk


Oct 26, 2005, 11:28 PM
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In reply to:
Thank you guys, you've provided me with much more information than I had hoped for! I'm not really bold enough to be leading trad on anything in the 5.9+ range yet... And it remains to be seen how the grades match up with Squamish, so we'll see. I've just been told to not look at it as a purely sport venue as there are supposed to be some classic easy multipitches for gear. Between my partner and I we should be fine with doubles on all the DMMs and a fairly decent small rack... BUT - you've sold me on picking up at least a #4 Camalot...

Ah, gear shopping!

If you have never led on sandstone it's much softer than what you will find in squamish. Cams tracking aren't as big of a deal here as they are in say indian creek, but none the less placing gear is much different.

Stay off the rock here for at least 24hours if it rains ( in the small chance it does while your here ) holds break and gear doesn't hold 50% as well.

P.K.


davido


Oct 27, 2005, 11:16 PM
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PK - thanks for the reminder about sandstone and water. It doesn't hurt to be reminded to be cautious. So, I definitely appreciate it!


flamer


Oct 28, 2005, 7:13 AM
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You absolutely don't need double cams in Red Rocks....take some extra nuts and you'll be fine. Especially if you're doing the easy stuff. SOme of the harder (and even then only some) routes you'll want doubles on a select few peice's, but you'll know what to bring.

By the way the classic route Cat in the Hat can now be rappelled with a single 60M rope. There will be some very minor(like 10ft of 5.3) down climbing on 1 pitch but the rest is straight rapping.

josh


granite_grrl


Oct 28, 2005, 7:44 AM
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If you don't have a second rope to rap with you could be severly limitting your route options. If you only have one rope between you and your partner look through the guide book, see what you can still do, and then decide if you want to get a second rope.

I don't remember toting and specialty peices up. If you do spring for a #4 BD I have found it to be a very useful peice in a few different areas, so it'll be a good investment regardless. I don't remember using hexes....I don't know if these are any good there.


tenesmus


Oct 28, 2005, 7:55 AM
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You absolutely don't need double cams in Red Rocks....take some extra nuts and you'll be fine. Especially if you're doing the easy stuff. SOme of the harder (and even then only some) routes you'll want doubles on a select few peice's, but you'll know what to bring.
I agree. Its only a few routes that you'd need doubles. That's the thing that makes RedRocks accessible to those who love trad but aren't necessarily pure crack climbers. Of course there are routes you'd need all that stuff on, but its not that often. With all the overbolting, you can often leave the second set at the car.

Vegastradguy - What do you think about a 70m rope for some of those rappels? Could you do stuff on the Black Velvet Wall with one? I know the hanging belays make you want 2 just so you can get the hell off of it, but maybe it'd be easier to get up with one. What about Crymson Chrysalis? or stuff in Oak Creek canyon? Man that's be a lot easier hump with one rope and a very light rack!!


skateman


Oct 28, 2005, 7:58 AM
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I just got back from RedRocks last week. I noticed that some of the pitches can be very long. (Eg. the last pitch of olive oil was 190 feet. although I probally could have made it into two pitches) I also remember that last pitch easily taking large gear up to a #5 C4. Like someone else said, bring everything you have for roadtrips, it will give you more options.

Another note: Some guide books are terribly wrong at pitch length. I think the 3rd pitch of dark shadows was quoted at 80 feet, but turned out to be 140.

Dan


landgolier


Oct 28, 2005, 7:58 AM
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Sounds like at least the OP is going to be hitting the easy trad next week, anybody else? I'm going to be there from 31st-4th, got a partner but we'll be doing a lot of that stuff as well. Was thinking wednesday for cat in the hat.


vegastradguy


Oct 28, 2005, 8:41 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
You absolutely don't need double cams in Red Rocks....take some extra nuts and you'll be fine. Especially if you're doing the easy stuff. SOme of the harder (and even then only some) routes you'll want doubles on a select few peice's, but you'll know what to bring.
I agree. Its only a few routes that you'd need doubles. That's the thing that makes RedRocks accessible to those who love trad but aren't necessarily pure crack climbers. Of course there are routes you'd need all that stuff on, but its not that often. With all the overbolting, you can often leave the second set at the car.

well, i suppose it depends on your comfort level at a particular grade. the nice thing about Red Rock is that it eats gear most of the time, so if you want to bring more gear on a route, feel free- chances are you'll use it.

In reply to:
Vegastradguy - What do you think about a 70m rope for some of those rappels? Could you do stuff on the Black Velvet Wall with one? I know the hanging belays make you want 2 just so you can get the hell off of it, but maybe it'd be easier to get up with one. What about Crymson Chrysalis? or stuff in Oak Creek canyon? Man that's be a lot easier hump with one rope and a very light rack!!

it would be easier, but no, not really. you can get off of Solar Slab with a single 60m if you go to the top and then drop down into the Painted Bowls (see beta in the routes db), Birdland can be rapped with a 70m, but not a 60m (unless you're willing to downclimb 5.5-5.6 terrain).

Everything on the Velvet Wall requires two ropes....those pitches are long.

Crimson- nope- A couple of those raps between bolted stations are 150' or so.

But, honestly, the hikes arent all that bad. I often do two hour approaches with double lines and a full double rack to 3" + a big piece or two and I've never really been bothered by it, I dont really notice it more than I do when I have much less weight with me.

And, unlike josh the mutant climber here, I'm no superhero- i climb 5.10 on a good day and my cardio sucks.


tradklime


Oct 28, 2005, 8:57 AM
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I think the DMM #4 is roughly equivalent to the BD #3- so make sure you bring that one along.

Just to calrify... the #4 DMM is the same size as the #4 friend which is closest to the old camalot #3.5. It is slightly larger than a #3 camalot (old or new) and is rather close to a #4 new camalot, although slightly smaller.

If you are looking for a piece that is the next size up from the #4 DMM, the perfect size is the old #4 camalot, or #6 rock empire pulsar. This size is perfect to fill in the gap between a #4 Friend/ New camalot and #5 Friend/ New camalot. It is a wide fist size.


tradklime


Oct 28, 2005, 9:08 AM
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Davido, don't sandbag yourself too much. There are some classic multi-pitch routes with alot of bolts that require just a small amount of gear, hardly full on trad routes.

So if you are climbing 5.10 sport routes, go give Prince of Darkness a try. Just bring a green, yellow, red, and orange alien or equivalent and some medium nuts and you can sewn it up.

Similar goes for Levitation 29. If you can climb 5.11, give it a go. Again bring a similar rack as above.

Have fun


landgolier


Oct 28, 2005, 9:16 AM
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There is indeed a small but turbo-annoying gap between a #4 WC/DMM and the #5 WC, but unless you're really going to place all three I'm not sure it's 100% worth it to carry a gap piece. Serious OW heads might need it, but I think most of the time if there's a random placement that size, there's one a little bigger or smaller 3 feet away. That's an east coast perspective of course, you desert rats may get different mileage (And this at least used to be a RR thread).

Also, an 8-9 hex stack fits right in that gap, but that takes practice to do with one hand and gives some people the puckers. Hex stacks do love mild flares, though.


tenesmus


Oct 28, 2005, 4:59 PM
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vegastradguy. thanks. makes sense.


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