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deserteaglle
Oct 28, 2005, 11:17 PM
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All over this site is people talking about how grades aren't important (yeah there is a lot of talk about grades but that arguments been done before), and how it's mostly about the climb. There seem to be an assload of climbers on this site from all walks of life who have different points of view on many things but still for the most part feel that way. Soooooo...
Why in the climbing magazines, it is mostly who was the first person to onsight this grade, who won this comp, or (Keanu Reeve's voice) check out this narly overhanging highball that only like two people can do dude...Whoa.
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hosh
Oct 28, 2005, 11:26 PM
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because the post on this site are written by "real" people and the mags are written by "mag" people. different agendas.
I'll tell you about what I've done and what I think...
mag people wil ltell you what the best of the best have done and what you should think...
hosh.
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jt512
Oct 28, 2005, 11:58 PM
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In reply to: All over this site is people talking about how grades aren't important (yeah there is a lot of talk about grades but that arguments been done before), and how it's mostly about the climb. There seem to be an assload of climbers on this site from all walks of life who have different points of view on many things but still for the most part feel that way. Soooooo... Why in the climbing magazines, it is mostly who was the first person to onsight this grade, who won this comp, or (Keanu Reeve's voice) check out this narly overhanging highball that only like two people can do dude...Whoa.
Well, it's like this: Most of the people on this site don't climb very hard, so they rationalize that climbing hard isn't what it's about. On the other hand, the climbers in the magazines can climb hard, so they don't need to pretend that they don't care about the subject.
HTH
-Jay
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deserteaglle
Oct 29, 2005, 12:04 AM
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oooooohhhhhhh, damn dude. That one was rough. Can't wait to seea response for that one.
I honestly don't know how hard I climb. Don't have climbing buddies, and don't have guidebooks for the places I go.
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cintune
Oct 29, 2005, 12:47 AM
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I've been noticing a lot of spillover from this site to things I see in Climbing and R&I. Subtle little things in the editorials and various departments and features, but noticable. For one example, I doubt the John Rosholt story would have made it into this month's R&I if not for the coverage here. Some of the offhand quote-type blurbs in both mags have also been lifted straight from posts here.
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cadaverchris
Oct 29, 2005, 12:55 AM
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thank you jay for putting it out there =)
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caughtinside
Oct 29, 2005, 3:28 AM
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Jay summed it up pretty well.
Another aspect is that this is a user supported forum. Not a lot of what I'd call reporting. The mags generally report on news, in a more traditional (ha ha) format. To many, hard climbs are newsworthy. It's fun to know what's on the cutting edge of climbing.
But there's also plenty of pics in the mags of people on 5.12s or easier, which are hardly newsworthy. They tend to be photogenic, or highlight a good climb from an area being covered.
Oh, and climbing hard is more fun. :P
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billcoe_
Oct 29, 2005, 4:34 AM
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In reply to: All over this site is people talking about how grades aren't important (yeah there is a lot of talk about grades but that arguments been done before), and how it's mostly about the climb.
That high grades are important stuff is all over this site, look around. Nothing wrong with discussing a time of 2 + hours for Zodiac or a solo of 11 + hours for the nose, they are shocking and amazing things and should be discussed. It's all over this site as well. Just look.
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jeffvoigt
Oct 29, 2005, 5:33 AM
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I know that when I look at a mag and see a really rad hard problem it gets me motivated to up my climbing grade. I think its kinda like reading a car magazine or something, sure you will never own the car you are reading about but you still like to look at it. This goes for porn as well
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curt
Oct 29, 2005, 5:40 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: All over this site is people talking about how grades aren't important (yeah there is a lot of talk about grades but that arguments been done before), and how it's mostly about the climb. There seem to be an assload of climbers on this site from all walks of life who have different points of view on many things but still for the most part feel that way. Soooooo... Why in the climbing magazines, it is mostly who was the first person to onsight this grade, who won this comp, or (Keanu Reeve's voice) check out this narly overhanging highball that only like two people can do dude...Whoa. Well, it's like this: Most of the people on this site don't climb very hard, so they rationalize that climbing hard isn't what it's about...
Climbing hard is fine. Having the need to read about it in the mags is quite something else.
Curt
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ambler
Oct 29, 2005, 10:33 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: All over this site is people talking about how grades aren't important (yeah there is a lot of talk about grades but that arguments been done before), and how it's mostly about the climb. There seem to be an assload of climbers on this site from all walks of life who have different points of view on many things but still for the most part feel that way. Soooooo... Why in the climbing magazines, it is mostly who was the first person to onsight this grade, who won this comp, or (Keanu Reeve's voice) check out this narly overhanging highball that only like two people can do dude...Whoa. Well, it's like this: Most of the people on this site don't climb very hard, so they rationalize that climbing hard isn't what it's about... Climbing hard is fine. Having the need to read about it in the mags is quite something else.
On Supertopo lately, folks have been re-posting some great magazine articles from the past -- Games Climbers Play, The View from Deadhorse Point, The Only Blasphemy and others. You don't have to climb hard to appreciate those.
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roshiaitareya
Oct 29, 2005, 10:43 PM
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Why Keanu Reeves? He doesn't say "like dude", maybe you're thinking of Paulie Shore
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deserteaglle
Oct 30, 2005, 3:26 PM
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roshia(whatever the hell),
What dude, have you never seen Bill and Ted's excellent adventure? Or how about Point Break? Bill and Ted's bogus journey(basicly the same as the excellent adventure, but in this one they go to Hell! EXCELLENT!!! If you never heard of him until the Matrix then you don't know how lucky you are, but he is known for his gratuitous use of "dude" in all of the aforementioned titles, though he has many more which nobody cares about.
And I believe Pauley Shore is known for putting odd suffixs at the end of a commonly used word. example: "Wheezin' the juiceage".
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cowpoke
Oct 30, 2005, 5:22 PM
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In reply to: Why in the climbing magazines, it is mostly who was the first person to onsight this grade, who won this comp, or (Keanu Reeve's voice) check out this narly overhanging highball that only like two people can do dude...Whoa.
Because it's news, as leading achievements outside of climbing are. While most economists don't spend their days discussing their work in relation to winning the Nobel prize, most are interested to know who wins each year. [I don't buy the argument that enjoying someone else's achievements in an area about which you are passionate signals some form of personality flaw.] Indeed, this site also reports leading climbing achievements as news. As ambler notes, however, some news makes for a better read than other news. In climbing, I would argue that the higher the adventure level, the greater the likelihood that the news will provide a good read (holding all other things constant, such as writing ability). The caveat? The mags are in the business of selling news and sometimes there is little news to sell. These are the months in which the probability of reading about relatively less notable ascents is high. On the other hand, some months provide news jackpots (thanks to Tommy Caldwell for the upcoming issues).
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asandh
Oct 30, 2005, 5:45 PM
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:?
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maculated
Oct 30, 2005, 5:52 PM
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I think of it this way: if I'm satisfied with my experience, I don't need to know about others'. I'm psyched for things people do, but at the same time, I'm more psyched to meet cool people who enhance MY experience.
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jabtocrag
Oct 30, 2005, 6:04 PM
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In reply to: Because it's news, as leading achievements outside of climbing are. While most economists don't spend their days discussing their work in relation to winning the Nobel prize, most are interested to know who wins each year. [I don't buy the argument that enjoying someone else's achievements in an area about which you are passionate signals some form of personality flaw.]
I agree with this completely. I think it's natural for people, in any aspect of life, to receive inspiration from others that are pushing themselves to amazing levels.
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deserteaglle
Oct 30, 2005, 6:26 PM
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I guess I can understand what the people who say it is purely for the experience mean, but it's got to be a little bit of bs. In every other sport/activity it is completely natural to want to be the absolute best. What if you heard a football player on the news saying "Yeah we went out there and gave 87 percent. You know we've done better, but I don't think we ever had that much fun. I really don't care if we get to the superbowl.
I just read an article in Rock and Ice about Michael Reardon and his setting the record for fastest ascent of Palisade Traverse. He didn't sign the ascent list but instead left panties to prove he was there. Many of his other ascents are questioned because hedoesn' usually leave evidence. I think (this is based off of what I see in him, who is obviously a great climber) this is what it's about. He doesn't really care about the other people, or what they think or know, but DOES want to push himself to the limits, and climb harder and faster.
I thought it was awesome to read about that crazy dude and what he's done/accomplished, it's inspirational.
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jabtocrag
Oct 30, 2005, 6:29 PM
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I came across this quote , by Boone Speed, referencing Sherman's V-grade scale. I think it has some merit...
In reply to: Half the climbers out there wouldn't be bouldering if their efforts weren't quantifiable.....I mean honestly, do you think those people out there sieging crumbly butt starts would be doing it if there was no grade involved? |
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roshiaitareya
Oct 30, 2005, 9:41 PM
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Gotcha, I was thinking more of the new Keanu Reeves rather than old school. Yes I've seen those movies, and I know where you're coming from now. I had in my mind pictures of Matrix/Constantine Keanu Reeves. Anyways...
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abisharat
Oct 30, 2005, 9:53 PM
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I think that, when you hear about harder and harder ascents, as a few individuals push limits (quantifiable by grades), the whole community benefits. The leading climbers are the ones pushing the limits, and that in a round-about way raises everyone's level. 30 years ago, if you climbed 5.12, everyone knew who you were. Now, if you don't climb 5.12, you're a loser (unfortunately). Reporting that, say, the palisade traverse was done in a day, opens eyes and allows people to push themselves. Take it for what it's worth--inspiration, news, dreams, whatever you want to call it. This sport is about enjoying yourself, and one aspect of that is pushing yourself to try more challenging projects, whatever those may be.
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climbsomething
Oct 30, 2005, 11:38 PM
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Jay hit it right on, and nitpicking his response would likely only reveal your own insecurities. Just so you know, those 5.15, free wall speed, monster Pakistani alpine FA on 2 fig newtons and a hard boiled egg climbers are real climbers too, and their realness shouldn't be lost once they break the elusive 10a barrier.
And come on, these mags are selling. People want to live vicariously through rad climbers, or at least appreciate their achievements. I have a hard time believing that all that is "real" and true in climbing is concentrated on this site. If I want to read about superiority complexes and gagging spray, I don't turn to the mags...
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