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oleolinsky
Oct 23, 2005, 6:52 PM
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my goodness.. men are finally catching up :)
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t-dog
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Oct 24, 2005, 4:22 AM
Post #27 of 47
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Looks like the guy is running out of hard things to climb on his side of the pond! Methinks a trip to Europe to get on some hard sport routes would be a good idea for him! not to shoot down the integrity of hard sport routes in Europe (or any where in the world), but do you really think that any hard sport route can compare to climbing the nose in a day? It would be anticlimactic to levitate up a bolted sport route after such a great achievement as freeing the nose. JCS So what are you saying? The Nose is the holy grail of climbing? Well, s---, if that's the case, then he might as well retire now that he's got that one taken care of!! It's not all about granite and being 2000 feet off the deck, in case nobody had informed you of it... t-dog...read it again ya jackass. i never said it was the holy grail. i never said it was the apex of climbing accomplishments.
Dude, did you read what you posted? just in case, here it is again:
In reply to: but do you really think that any hard sport route can compare to climbing the nose in a day? It would be anticlimactic to levitate up a bolted sport route after such a great achievement as freeing the nose.
My reading comprehension is doing very well, thank you very much!
And sure, climbing the nose in a day offers some great views, but there's realistically only 2 pitches of hard climbing on the whole thing (The Great Roof and the Changing Corners pitch), with a whole lot of 5.11 and under climbing all over the place.
And calling China the land of noodles? Please! I think's it's time you pulled your head out of your arse (or is it oklahoma?) and realize there's more to chinese food than noodles and potstickers :shock:
In reply to: your reading comprehension sucks. i hope you are not over in the land of noodles trying to teach them english. of so, they're doomed. and that my friend...is all. JCS
hahahha no, I'll leave the english teaching jobs to americans like yourself who've been here for years, still can't speak chinese worth a damn, and can't land themselves a real job :lol:
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jackscoldsweat
Oct 24, 2005, 10:43 PM
Post #28 of 47
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dog,
read it again bro. good lord you are wearing me out.
my previous post\statement still stands.
i give up,
JCS
oh, and i saved you the trouble, and found the following for you to work on:: http://www.rhlschool.com/reading.htm
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keinangst
Oct 25, 2005, 4:38 PM
Post #29 of 47
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In reply to: It's not all about granite and being 2000 feet off the deck, in case nobody had informed you of it...
Obviously you've never read It's All About Granite and Being 2000 Feet Off the Deck by Burt Bronson...
I think Amazon carries it.
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t-dog
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Oct 27, 2005, 9:28 AM
Post #30 of 47
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In reply to: Obviously you've never read It's All About Granite and Being 2000 Feet Off the Deck by Burt Bronson... I think Amazon carries it.
He came out with another book??? I just finished Crushing Holds and Pimpin' the Ladies: A Day in the Life of Burt Bronson and I just could not put the thing down for the life of me. The Man is such a captivating author I'll just have to get his new one :lol:
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overlord
Oct 27, 2005, 12:27 PM
Post #31 of 47
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actually i think that every "hard" boulder problem/sport/trad/aid/alpine line can be compared to freeing the nose.
why??
because they all mean that whoever climbed it put some effort into it, has overcome something in order to get there. no for of climbing is really any better than any other.
i not saying that the nose isnt a great route. im just saying that everybody has their own "climaxes" so climbing something other than the nose, even after freeing it, certanly wouldnt be anticlimatic. you need to find your own challenges and beat them if youre able. as for tommy, im sure he will find his nexr climax :wink:
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justsaynototake
Oct 27, 2005, 2:24 PM
Post #32 of 47
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Looks like the guy is running out of hard things to climb on his side of the pond! Methinks a trip to Europe to get on some hard sport routes would be a good idea for him! not to shoot down the integrity of hard sport routes in Europe (or any where in the world), but do you really think that any hard sport route can compare to climbing the nose in a day? It would be anticlimactic to levitate up a bolted sport route after such a great achievement as freeing the nose. JCS So what are you saying? The Nose is the holy grail of climbing? Well, s---, if that's the case, then he might as well retire now that he's got that one taken care of!! It's not all about granite and being 2000 feet off the deck, in case nobody had informed you of it... t-dog...read it again ya jackass. i never said it was the holy grail. i never said it was the apex of climbing accomplishments. Dude, did you read what you posted? just in case, here it is again: In reply to: but do you really think that any hard sport route can compare to climbing the nose in a day? It would be anticlimactic to levitate up a bolted sport route after such a great achievement as freeing the nose. My reading comprehension is doing very well, thank you very much! And sure, climbing the nose in a day offers some great views, but there's realistically only 2 pitches of hard climbing on the whole thing (The Great Roof and the Changing Corners pitch), with a whole lot of 5.11 and under climbing all over the place. And calling China the land of noodles? Please! I think's it's time you pulled your head out of your arse (or is it oklahoma?) and realize there's more to chinese food than noodles and potstickers :shock: In reply to: your reading comprehension sucks. i hope you are not over in the land of noodles trying to teach them english. of so, they're doomed. and that my friend...is all. JCS hahahha no, I'll leave the english teaching jobs to americans like yourself who've been here for years, still can't speak chinese worth a damn, and can't land themselves a real job :lol:
Nice :lol:
I have a question though. If it says that they were soloing, does that mean rope soloing? I am assuming yes because it says that they fell and clearly they are still ok.
That is truely amazing.
Of course when I think "soloing" I think of being alone on the climb. This was not the case, was it? Please feel free to educate me because I am trying to draw a mental picture of the situation that they were in. Did one of them climb a pitch with some kind of self-belaying device, while the other just sat at the belay station? And then once the leader was at the top of that pitch did he just let the other person do the same thing or did he belay her up? Clearly I am confused. Please clearify for us slow beginners.
--E
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t-dog
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Oct 31, 2005, 7:22 AM
Post #33 of 47
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I don't remember anything about them soloing any of it, might have to go re-read it though.
Although in absolute, no one has soloed the Nose yet, due to the high difficulty although some (Potter) have soloed the route by free-soloing the easier parts and aid-soloing the harder ones. By roped soloing (usually done on aid, although sometimes free as well) you are usually alone on the route, although you can do it as a way to speed things up (i.e. when your partner is jugging up to the belay). But this is drifting off topic, check the aid forum for more complete and plentiful explanations on how soloing works and how it's used.
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wolfeman
Oct 31, 2005, 5:34 PM
Post #34 of 47
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I just finshed Lynn Hill's book, and she calls the changing corners/great roof pitch .13c-.14a. It would be interesting to see what Tommy rated it, if he did.
Congradulations to Tommy and Beth. Very inspirational.
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striker
Nov 1, 2005, 3:48 AM
Post #35 of 47
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i'm just waiting for somebody to jump on the egger-mastri route of Cerro Torre and send that. for me, that will be an accomplishment which stands alone. even if you look at Trango Tower, you will see routes of amazing quality. ie: eternal flame (VI 5.12c A0, 35 pitches) or Cowboy Direct (VII 5.13a) and all of this at altitude by people who love to climb.
the expectations of free climbing have risen well beyond my comprehension or even of yosemite's new unequivical accomplishments.
I just have to wonder, what will it take to out do ourselves and when will fast be fast enough?
aaron
oh, just one more thing, i guess tommy caldwell is only human after all.
p.s. yes I know that there is A0 in eternal flame, but most likely it's very minimal aid, usually involving a fifi and a piece of pro.
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shackboy
Nov 1, 2005, 1:49 PM
Post #36 of 47
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Good thoughts, and it'll be fun to see what these superhumans (I respectfully disagree with the quote below) do in the future.
"oh, just one more thing, i guess tommy caldwell is only human after all."
--Then again...freeing the Nose and Free Rider both (not to mention that the 3k descent down the East Ledges, in between sends, would tire out most humans) in 23 hrs makes ya wonder, no?
"p.s. yes I know that there is A0 in eternal flame, but most likely it's very minimal aid, usually involving a fifi and a piece of pro."
--Nope, it's a bolt ladder.
Cheers.
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rustiblade
Nov 8, 2005, 2:35 AM
Post #37 of 47
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Tommy...the Jordan of rock. Not bad for a guy who's so down to earth and cool.
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triggerhappy
Dec 2, 2005, 1:16 PM
Post #38 of 47
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Now this is just a question, but does anyone feel that perhaps the Nose has become easier due to the pin scars growing in the last ten years? While I'm sure most people do it clean these days, there must still be a few people driving the iron. Or perhaps holds have broken, making it harder? In short, have the last ten years changed the route in any significant way?
Also, does anyone know whether he or Lynn used the infamous chipped traverse? Maybe I just missed it, but reading Lynn's book, I wasn't clear if she took it or if she found some other way.
Oh, and congrats to Tommie and Beth.
-triggerhappy
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shackboy
Dec 3, 2005, 5:40 AM
Post #40 of 47
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tradman,
regarding the second half of your post, with the supposed/not egger-maestri line on cerro torre, are you kidding/trolling, or haven't you heard?
just recently, it got climbed by rolo garibotti, ermanno salvaterra and alessandro beltrami -- and, above the col of conquest, they didn't find a single trace of all that maestri claimed (claimed among his contrasting stories/self contradictions).
you were right here:
"My opinion? It will get done, and soon. "
--not by some leashless climbers, though, just by some mega badass alpinists
so, in response to this:
"Which just leaves the question - how the F*CK did egger and maestri do it?!?!"
Answer: they didn't.
garibotti is a f*cking beast, he just has no interest in media attention but one of the best climbers in the world, which is why many folks haven't heard of him. salvaterra (from italy) is basically the man on cerro torre -- this is something like his 3rd new route. beltrami is also super accomplished, and from the same area as maestri or something like that, and fully believed him (like many italians) -- not now. those guys didn't find a single thing, nothing. maestri claimed to place some 70 bolts above the col.
these 3 tried it once, got high and bailed in a storm, then went back and sent in awesome style. cool photos and reports on www.colmar.it (site of one of salvaterra's sponsors, i think). so, they were on it lots, and though they went around onto the NW face in the intial bits from the col (then re-joined the supposed egger-maestri line), between their attempt, ascent, and descents they were all over where maestri claimed to be.
there was news on climbing.com, and some others -- do a search and you'll find lots.
sucks in a way, because yeah, it'd be sweet to think maestri pulled it off way back when. he was ahead of his time in many ways, but is also an outright liar. harsh words, but true.
truthfully, if you know all the details, you've realized that maestri didn't do it even before this proof-positive ascent by garibotti et al. garibotti wrote an exhaustive analysis of it in the 2004 AAJ (it's online in pdf format at http://www.americanalpineclub.org/knowledge/aaj.asp -- there's his article and a separate link to accomodate his unbelievably epic bibliography). garibotti's from italy originally and speaks a bunch of languages and is probably the most knowledgable climber about patagonia in the world (he grew up in bariloche and has done tons in patagonia). in retrospect, after reading his virtual thesis on the topic -- complete with italian language journals, grossly contradictory statements by maestri in italian interviews, etc -- you realize that stuff like the prior articles in places like Climbing magazine and such were outrageously poorly researched, little gloss-over deals posing as real journalism.
super interesting stuff (obviously i think so -- i know, i need to get a life), i got way into learning all about it and this ascent puts a definitive ending to one of the greatest mysteries (myths, as it turns out) out there.
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marc801
Dec 3, 2005, 6:28 AM
Post #41 of 47
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In reply to: Also, does anyone know whether he or Lynn used the infamous chipped traverse? |
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tradman
Dec 5, 2005, 12:50 PM
Post #42 of 47
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In reply to: regarding the second half of your post, with the supposed/not egger-maestri line on cerro torre, are you kidding/trolling, or haven't you heard?
Hadn't heard. Fantastic news, thanks!
I feel a little sorry for maestri, but not much. Right enough he claimed to have placed a bolt ladder on the top pitches, so if that wasn't found, I'd be satisfied that it wasn't done at all.
Cheers for the info man.
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rustie_c
Dec 7, 2005, 11:13 AM
Post #43 of 47
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[quote="phaedrus"]. This is the second free ascent of the Nose ...
This is not true.
Scott Burke led every pitch free over 12 days except for the Great Roof, which he top roped free as storms threatened to end the climb.
Here's what Caldwell had to say about Scott Burke's climb a couple of weeks before he and Beth climbed the Nose: "I give him credit. I feel people should be able to do what they want up there, as long as they report honestly, which he did.... There’s so many variations of what people count as a free ascent, in terms of stance to stance or ledge to ledge or in a push or one person or two—there’s a bazillion different variations. There’s no way you can police that and say what’s legitimate, I don’t think."
Even though Scott didn't lead every pitch, he still free climbed every pitch. An absolutely amazing achievement.
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up_rope
Dec 8, 2005, 4:12 AM
Post #44 of 47
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I have the utmost respect for both Tommy and Beth on there amazing feat. They both give me inspiration and motivation to drive myself harder and do the things that people say are impossible. So the most that I can say is congrats to them both and say amazing job to Tommy on the one day link up of the Nose and Freerider.................................WOW!!!
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jaybird2
Dec 8, 2005, 4:50 AM
Post #45 of 47
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In reply to: Scott Burke led every pitch free over 12 days except for the Great Roof, which he top roped free as storms threatened to end the climb.
Tommy's quote was quite the gentleman's reply. I am gonna have to call Burke on this one though. I mean, you even used the infamous except in your comment. You just can't claim having freed it if you TR'd it. TR is a form of aid in my book. Com'on. I could never touch the guy, but com'on... freeing it via top rope. I mean, com'on...
As for the documentation of the feat, how about having your mug on both mags! Does Tommy just lay both of those mags out on the bathroom floor, butt naked, and flex while saying, "Who's the SH$T! UNGH, WHO's THE SH$T!"
... I would. Sometimes... I pretend I'm Tommy and do that... :roll:
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jaybird2
Dec 8, 2005, 5:03 AM
Post #46 of 47
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In reply to: So what are you saying? The Nose is the holy grail of climbing? Well, s---, if that's the case, then he might as well retire now that he's got that one taken care of!! It's not all about granite and being 2000 feet off the deck, in case nobody had informed you of it...
Actually dood, JCS never explicitly stated that it is the Holy Grail. He simply compared it to sport climbing. You are the SOLE person to produce the concept. Congruent with JCS's statements, one could go to other places like Patagonia or free some tougher routes that are currently aid routes in Zion or Red Rocks. You put El Cap on the pedestal above all others. JCS told you like 58 times to reread his post... that was all it would have took. :cry:
But seriously man, going sport climbing after freeing The Nose is like driving to the grocery store in a blizzard after doing the Iditarod. "Dude, there is no one out on the streets... man am I core!"
I am not knocking sport climbers... I sport climb also.
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rustie_c
Dec 8, 2005, 8:18 AM
Post #47 of 47
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Jaybird2 I can see where you are coming from....I just believe in giving credit where credit is due, and I felt that Scott Burke deserved some credit. There is no doubt about it, one million times over, Tommy Caldwell has shattered the record books. He has done something we may not see again for a long time. He may be the best climber of all time! I am pretty sure if the situation were different Scott Burke would have led the Great Roof. The circumstances up there that day were dire. The weather was the worst. Gigantic icicles had formed on the roof. Scott thought he was gone for sure. He had spent months preparing. Previous to his all out push he had in fact climbed every pitch free. The guy is a maniac! As for the semantics of the matter, it frankly nauseates me. TR as aid? Give me a break! Where is the line drawn.
Are bolts aid, if they are not placed by you? Burke didn't aid the roof. If he had he would have said so. He could have lied and said he led the pitch. Who would have known? I could see a problem if he used a 6000' rope to TR the whole route(wouldn't that be something!). What if his partner was as competent a climber as he? What if on the Great Roof pitch it just happened to be Burke's turn to follow. Isn't that top roping? Would the team not have gotten credit for the ascent? You know they would have. It's too bad that people are so knit picky. Oh NO...he fell one time...Doesn't count! It is like watching paint dry. BLAH!!!! Technicalities, Technicalities. Speaking of which, didn't Ray Jardine chip some holds on the Nose route? I am sure Lynn Hill, Scott Burke, Beth Rodden and Tommy Caldwell all used them. Hence none of them actually freed the original Nose route. But who is going to buy into that. In the same respect, is Warren Harding's first ascent of the Nose not valid because it took him a year and a half? What about Lynn Hill falling a couple of times on her Nose in a day free ascent? Is that not valid? It would probably be more aptly characterized as a pink point. There are just to many variables in climbing. I would be the first person to tell you that I am not that great of a climber. I don't even really aspire to be one.
The thing I like the most about climbing is any level of difficulty can be mind blowing. Any level can make you feel like a star. All I wanted to do was give Scott a little credit.
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