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h-man
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Oct 31, 2005, 6:01 PM
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How would you improve the ways existing guide books are printed/published?
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lofstromc
Oct 31, 2005, 6:13 PM
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Some guidebooks are more precise than others.
For example, one guidebook has info like, "belay at ledge with the mountain mahogany growing on it". Precise and very helpful
Another guidebook may say "start climb at left of large tree". WTF is that, it is no help at all if you are in the forest!
I realize not everyone may know what a mountain mahogany looks like, but for those of us who do, it's a huge help.
Another thing that pisses me of is when there is a picture of the wall taken from a spot on which you will never stand on in if you where looking for the climb. I prefer drawings over pictures for this exact reason.
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shiggetyshiva
Oct 31, 2005, 6:31 PM
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- include the approximately length of pitches in feet and/or meters.
- if known, recommended gear (e.g., "Bring a #4 Camalot)
- a balance of something meaningful about the nature of a route vs. historical trivia that may be nice to know for the sake of knowing. If forced to choose, I'd rather have more of the details about the route than know about the FA party & history
- portable & water-resistant book - it's helpful on multipitch routes to be able to bring the guidebook with you as you climb.
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midwestishell
Oct 31, 2005, 6:44 PM
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I like to see photos of confusing areas, both on route and views from the base of the climb. They don't need to be color since that raises the price, just good high quality photos. Just think back to the last time you were sitting on a belay ledge with an entire crack system in front of you, the book only saying, "take the obvious crack up, vear right to the next belay."
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asandh
Oct 31, 2005, 6:54 PM
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:)
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lofstromc
Oct 31, 2005, 7:38 PM
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:shock:
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microbarn
Oct 31, 2005, 7:59 PM
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for people like asandh,
you could break the description into 2 bullets
-how to get there
-how to get up
He might come back and say that it would be like not clipping bolts when there is a trad placement next to it though.
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asandh
Oct 31, 2005, 8:16 PM
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:)
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markc
Oct 31, 2005, 8:23 PM
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A few small points:
This comment is really focused on the Seneca Rock guide: I hate the dark red lines for routes. They can be hard enough to see sitting at home with good lighting. At the crag on an overcast day, they're really hard to see.
I think it's handy to mention the typical rack or any specialty gear common in an area in the introduction, but I don't want detailed gear selection for each climb unless there is something very unique required (such as a huge cam for the crux). YMMV.
If you list numbers of local campgrounds, it's good to include area codes.
As lofstromc said, non-specific directions are bad. It's reminiscent of driving directions that say "turn after the gas station" when the road is lined with them. On the other hand, it's almost comedic when your route description reads "start 10 feet left of route x". You find the description for route x, and it reads "start 20 feet left of route y". Off to find route y...
That all said, writing a guide is a largely thankless job that isn't making the author rich. The influx of new people pisses off the long-time locals, and the new people are pissed because the hike listed at 25 minutes took 33 minutes. The people that don't have time to write a book (like me) take time to critique it (like me). So, if you've made the effort to write a guide (or multiple guides), you have my thanks. It's definitely a labor of love.
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blueeyedclimber
Oct 31, 2005, 8:48 PM
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I like to know two things. 1. What grade it is and 2. where the route goes. The rest is just fluff. I don't mind it, but I don't really care if it is there or not. Although, I do appreciate the G - X ratings.
Josh
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bobruef
Oct 31, 2005, 9:10 PM
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as a noob, I really apreciate a protection rating (g-x)
I also like to see how high the routes typically are, so I can immedialtely eliminate the 20'ers
other than that, good photos are wonderful aids, as was mentioned above.
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microbarn
Oct 31, 2005, 9:47 PM
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I think groups of people are dumb. Even if the individual people in the group are smart. I have seen this evidenced too much not to believe it, and a guidebook will go to a large group of people.
Someone coming into a new area should be able to easily find the base of the climb. They should also have the MAJOR route following difficulties explained. This is particularly important when protection runs out. This could be telling them to follow one dihedral to the top, locating belays prior to each pitch, or walking them through a 10 foot section. Also, any protection nuances should be mentioned or alluded to. (Protection nuances being anything other than the "standard rack" laid out at the beginning of the book.) I also like the G, R, and X stuff.
I like to get all of that with minimal description, but when in doubt give more details. This is a group of people that are new to the area.
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microbarn
Oct 31, 2005, 9:49 PM
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Sorry, but I hope that your answer is in the above post asandh. I forgot to mention it before. Though, it is only one opinion.
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wolfeman
Oct 31, 2005, 10:38 PM
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It bugs me when FA information is left out of a guidebook. It is a bit of history, and honors those that did the work on the routes you are climbing.
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caughtinside
Oct 31, 2005, 10:56 PM
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The most important thing a guide book can do for me, besides tell me grade, length and special protection needs, is get me to the base without getting lost.
Thwacking around in bushes, trying to find the starts of climbs, while a part of climbing's great tradition, is the least personally fulfilling part of it, at least for me.
In some areas, this isn't real hard, but some spots are tricky. Good trail descriptions w/ landmarks, or photos can be helpful. Of course, sometimes there isn't much to be done if there's no real trail, or a million trails, going to the base.
Anyway, that's my gripe. A big reason to have a guide book is to save time at a new area.
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arrow
Oct 31, 2005, 11:21 PM
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caughtinside wrote:
In reply to: Thwacking around in bushes, trying to find the starts of climbs, while a part of climbing's great tradition, is the least personally fulfilling part of it, at least for me.
Hah I totally agree and feel this is tantamount to being sandbagged :x
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saxfiend
Nov 1, 2005, 12:40 AM
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In reply to: microbarn wrote: In reply to: for people like asandh, you could break the description into 2 bullets -how to get there -how to get up Ok, maybe I was being a bit sarcastic. But I really would like the answer to the quesions I posed. I put out a series of "Free" guides to our local climbing areas and would like to provide the level of info "most" people want. :)
In reply to: The most important thing a guide book can do for me, besides tell me grade, length and special protection needs, is get me to the base without getting lost.
JL
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