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demo


Nov 7, 2005, 11:51 AM
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Am I injured or tired?
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Howdy,

A couple days ago (Saturday) I spent a really hard day in the gym working myself to exhaustion on routes that are right at the edge of my ability (right now a 5.11b/c). The next day (Sunday) I went back into the gym feeling decent enough, but after 3 climbs I came down with a terrible pain on the outside of my left elbow. I tried doing some stretching and a few easy boulder problems to loosen up, but the pain got worse so I backed off. The pain persisted for about 1 hour, but after it finally left I recovered full range of motion, and aside from a little tightness I feel normal.

The pain itself was a very consistent, dull, delocalized pain. It felt like a migrain in my arm. The pain felt like it was centered in my elbow, but at times I felt it in my wrist and shoulder, and at times throughout my whole arm.

Anyway, that is enought of a story, does anyone know what this is? And if so, what I should do to avoid it becoming a reccuring thing? I heard from a friend that I should take 2-3 weeks off, but that sounds a little too drastic to me.

Thanks
Demo


lofstromc


Nov 7, 2005, 11:57 AM
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Re: Am I injured or tired? [In reply to]
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You are neither injured or tired, just weak!
HA HA

Just joking, it sound like you injured something.
I know it sucks, but you might want to take a rest, an injury like that could become chronic without time to recoup.


dingus


Nov 7, 2005, 12:18 PM
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demo, that was your elbow tendons introducing themselves. You are going to know them well in the future, you keep climbing back to back days like this in the gym. You may well have to change your name to Chronic.

As in, chronic elbow tendonitis. Wait till it starts hitching and popping, oh the joy!

DMT


overlord


Nov 7, 2005, 12:21 PM
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take enough days off for the pain to lessen.


clippedclimbing


Nov 7, 2005, 12:21 PM
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I battle with the same injury/irritation. I find that it is from overuse and a lack of warming up properly. A couple of days rest should do you fine and you will be back at it. This is generally a gym injury for me that doesn't happen that much outside, except when goint to Font. Get ready to have your elbows feel like they are going to explode!


alex234


Nov 7, 2005, 12:27 PM
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sounds like tendonitis. i would suggest rapping tape around the upper part of your forearm. this will change the insertion point of the tendon to where u wrapped the tape taking the strain off the true insertion point in your elbow. i would also suggest some rest and a good warm up before climbing.


chh


Nov 7, 2005, 12:35 PM
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Hey demo,

I sometimes get a similar pain in my elbows. Does it hurt when you try to straighten your arm out completely? If so, it might be something akin to "tennis elbow" that affects a nerve that runs down your arm and around the back (?) of where the three bones in your elbow meet. I most often notice this pain after a night of working on hard overhanging routes at my limit, or stiff bouldering, which I don't do very often. I don't think it has as much to do with muscle fatigue as it does hanging stiff armed on holds all the time. I've found that some light upper body exercise on days off helps out, not to mention hopefully making me stronger in the long run and making me feel better about not climbing. I stress light. Resist the temptation to do your regular weight routine if you do one, as this could exacerbate the problem. Concentrate on lighter weights and doing everything correctly and slowly. If it still hurts when you have your arm extended, stop.
If it does really feel like a "migrane" in your arm, you're probably better off just resting for a little while.....give the inflamation in that nerve a chance to chill out. 8^)

hope ya feel better,

-chh


carrotclimber


Nov 7, 2005, 12:38 PM
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This is the same problem I have. If I climb all weekend and/or do back to back days in the gym, or do a lot of crack climbing (liebacks seem to irritate my elbows more than anything else) this problem frequently strikes. I have never had problems with my hands, forearm or shoulders, like some people I know. Not sure why it is the elbows that always trouble me. For me, the pain lessens with a few days off. I have never let it get bad enough that a week off doesn't take care of most of the problem. Trust me though, keep pushing it... and it will get worse. It always seems to bother me when I am excited after a good couple of days climbing and can't wait to climb again. I think that it is my body telling my mind to take it easy and to not over do it. If anyone else has suggestions for how to avoid or treat this (other than rest) I am all ears as well though.


kovacs69


Nov 7, 2005, 12:39 PM
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Can we say tennis elbow...well the climbing version of it. You injured / irritated the tendon. The solution is rest, ice and advil.

Rest it for 7 to 10 days taking it easy.
Ice it twice a day for 15 to 20 minutes.
Advil - helps reduce swelling...don't take excessively...cause stomach problems.

Next time don't climb like a mad man one day and follow it with climbing the next day. I am guessing since you are climbing 11's then you are probably doing lots of overhangs. If you want to climb like that one day then best to follow it up with leg work ie. friction or edging with little or no weight on the arms. Like everyone else has said...warm up well before jumping on the big stuff.

I would ice it after climbing from now on just to make sure it doesn't rear it ugly head again.

JB


rockmad


Nov 7, 2005, 1:17 PM
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Take some Aleve for the inflamation, and take it easy. I think that this is common among those starting out in the sport, at least those that I know. It took me 4-5 months to finally climb without pain in the elbow. Lots of ice and lots of rest. Oh yeah bouldering always made it worse for me. Take it for what its worth.


erin


Nov 7, 2005, 1:51 PM
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In reply to:
demo, that was your elbow tendons introducing themselves. You are going to know them well in the future, you keep climbing back to back days like this in the gym. You may well have to change your name to Chronic.

As in, chronic elbow tendonitis. Wait till it starts hitching and popping, oh the joy!

DMT

I actually disagree. It sounds more like you had an entrapment of your posterior interossius nerve secondary to overworking the muscles in the area. If you had tendonitis the pain should be more localized. Also, the fact the you say it radiated down your arm sounds more nerve like. On the flip-side, dull achy pain sounds like bone, so it certainly could be simple tendonitis, but I would check with someone about a nerve injury too just to make sure.

In any case, it it's tendonitis, rest! and look into what's called a tennis elbow brace. It sits right below the elbow and diffuses the forces through all the extensors of your arm, versus just the extensor carpi radialis brevis, which is the most commonly indicated in lateral tendonitis.

Hope this helps.


joshy8200


Nov 7, 2005, 2:09 PM
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Can we get another..."Hey, it hurts when I do this..." thread? The answer to everyone of these questions that I would give is..."Then don't do what makes it hurt, until it doesn't hurt anymore."

In all seriousness, as Erin says your symptoms of radiating pain is classic to a nerve pain...probably in my humble opinion (of the boyfriend of the soon to be PT) caused by inflamation in your elbow pinching on the nerve in some way or another...caused by none other than what Dingus pointed out as overuse (ie climbing hard back to back days). When you climb hard back to back days you are putting your body through some seriously intense movements.

Rest up a day (or even OMG two days) between climbing workouts. Ibuprofen or Naproxen Sodium (Aleeve's active ingredient) are great to take after a hard climbing session. Drink fluids and eat well to give your body what it needs to repair and strengthen.


headchop


Nov 9, 2005, 8:44 AM
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As others have already stated - it's probably tendonitis. Rest, ice, ibuprofen.

Also, start working the antagonist muscles - simple pushups can really help with elbow tendonitis. This'll help work out any muscle imbalance.

And hydrate. Drink LOTS of water during the hours before climbing and continue to drink regularly the whole time you climb - not just after a few hours once you realize you're thirsty. Should help.


dingus


Nov 9, 2005, 8:53 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
demo, that was your elbow tendons introducing themselves. You are going to know them well in the future, you keep climbing back to back days like this in the gym. You may well have to change your name to Chronic.

As in, chronic elbow tendonitis. Wait till it starts hitching and popping, oh the joy!

DMT

I actually disagree.

Right on, no worries.

I've had both pains of which you speak, the dull all over and the sharp (omg SHARP!) pop of a swollen tendon trying to slide over the pulley. Both of them in my case are different symptoms of the same underlying problem... over use of previously damaged tendons.

I have to watch myself at the gym (normal gym) that I don't do too many repetitions on my elbows, nothing worse than injuring yourself while working out to go climbing. I also have to significantly reduce my range of motion when working out and I try to never bend my elbows inside 90 degree angle (when weighted) and never totally straighten them out either, say from 90 degrees to about 170. If I violate my workout rules I will suffer a recurrance inside a single session. The next day one of my elbows will inform me that a 5 day rest is in order.

But I'm old and worn out. You too will be someday, you keep climbing like that. Sooner, WAY SOONER, than you think, too.

DMT


asandh


Nov 9, 2005, 9:45 AM
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To all of you hyper active gym rats who think rest days are for sissys :

Its the REST DAYS that make you stronger NOT the workout days. The super compensation your body under goes on rest days as a result of you beating it in to submission on workout days is really what makes you stronger. :)


tijl


Nov 20, 2005, 8:19 AM
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After reading this topic I think you'd better take one week of rest. After that week you'll notice how bad it is but yuo're surely into overtraining thanks to your enthousiasm. Enthousiasm is good but the only secret to have profit out of training sessions is having enough rest afterwards. Two reasons: Supercompensation and adaptation. The supercompensation-theory is well known. The adaptation is what your tendons, muscles, ligaments and bones need to gain strength. Otherwise they won't withstand the heavy load you place on them every training session.
Grtz,
Tijl


Partner heiko


Nov 20, 2005, 8:58 AM
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In reply to:
After reading this topic I think you'd better take one week of rest.

He's probably already taken two weeks of rest since he first posted :twisted:


eak435s


Dec 2, 2005, 10:38 AM
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same problem here... but i'm fine after 2-3 days of rest. it's just annoying to stay off the wall that long.

anyone have any good PT to prevent it? does anyone know of any specific lifts (5-10 lbs) that would help strengthen those muscles?


singin_rocker


Dec 2, 2005, 10:53 AM
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I know it sucks to hear it but, if it hurts, take it easy. I had some pains that sound similar last year. Mine would start to show up a little bit while I was climbing and if I didn't stop it would get worse. It got to a point after a couple of weeks that if I caused a small pain in my elbow to start, even if I stopped climbing right then, the pain increased (very dull) to the point where I wondered if I would throw up.

I got tired of trying to rest and coming back and the pain still being as bad as ever. I went to the doctor. I had some problems with stressed muscles in my neck tweaking some nerves. He scripted some meds and exercises and I was fine in 2 weeks.

In hindsight, I think I had a combination of what the doctor treated me for and a good case of cranking too hard with terrible technique. Yes, that's the latin terminology.

So in response to your original question... I don't know... maybe yes and yes. If it persists, see a professional. Umm... better edit that to say doctor.

Waylan


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