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kjf
Nov 13, 2005, 2:39 PM
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Does the direction that the rope runs through the locking biner when belaying matter for safety?
The other day at the crag someone came up to me and told be I was belaying upside down. Now I had the rope running through the reverso as Petzl recommends, so that is not what he meant. What he meant was that the belay device should be clipped through the locking biner such that the break-end of rope should be running down and the lead rope should be coming up through the top of device. If you look at this diagram from Climbing magazine, it is the opposite, http://climbing.com/techtips/ttsport225/: the break-end of the rope is on the top--This is the way I prefer to belay. Are there any good reasons for belaying the other way, with the rope flipped, and the break rope below, the lead rope above?
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chalkfree
Nov 13, 2005, 3:18 PM
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It's just less likely to tangle and crossload.
If you're attentive it's not a major concern. It does look a bit funny.
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pornstarr
Nov 14, 2005, 1:25 AM
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you mean so the rope crosses itself......like you see when (some) people lower with a grigri (never used one myself)?
or in other words, so there is a "loop" of rope running through atc/whatever?
hmmm...if so, doesn't seem like it would lock off as easy but never tried it (less sharp of a bend??)
might even provide for a more dynamic belay.
whatever works for you.
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cintune
Nov 14, 2005, 1:37 AM
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In reply to: What he meant was that the belay device should be clipped through the locking biner such that the break-end of rope should be running down and the lead rope should be coming up through the top of device.
What does "running down" and "coming up" mean? Can't picture this.
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stickyfingerz
Nov 14, 2005, 5:22 PM
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kjf,
Don't worry about it, you're doing nothing wrong. The reverso will work just fine, and if you're more comfortable rigging it that way, then just do it. This is a classic example of the, "I was taught this way, so it must be the only/best way," syndrome.
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kjf
Nov 14, 2005, 5:49 PM
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I hope I've explained my question well enough- not so easy to explain verbally without pictures. Actually the person in this photo from Climbing Mag belays the way I usually do it. I'm not talking about the palm up/palm down debate, nor am I talking about how the rope runs through the belay device itself, but how the belay device along with the rope is then clipped into the locking biner as it hangs from the belay loop. Does that make sense?
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reg
Nov 14, 2005, 5:53 PM
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the reverso is my main device and i can not picture WTF he's talkin about.
i don't see how the rope could be "upside down". high friction mode? what am i missing? :shock:
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reg
Nov 14, 2005, 5:57 PM
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there's only one way to clip the thing to a biner on the belay loop well two ways - high friction and low friction. i hope your not clipping the loop designed for auto block mode!
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reg
Nov 14, 2005, 6:00 PM
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best thing for you to do is go to the gym and ask the instructor(s) if your doin something wrong - do it sooner then later.
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squierbypetzl
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Nov 14, 2005, 6:02 PM
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I´m not entirely sure I know what you mean, but if you´re belaying like the drawings, you´re OK. (edit: no you´re not, check the drawings carefully)
The braking end of the rope should be on the underside of the device, the climber´s part of the rope should be on top.´
I´m still confused...
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squierbypetzl
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Nov 14, 2005, 6:02 PM
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I´m not entirely sure I know what you mean, but if you´re belaying like the drawings, you´re OK.
The braking end of the rope should be on the underside of the device, the climber´s part of the rope should be on top.´
I´m still confused...
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kjf
Nov 14, 2005, 6:08 PM
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Yeah squierbypetzl,I think you understand what I mean...
But I would say that in the diagram in the climbing mag it looks like breaking end is on top, the lead rope is on the underside of the device (except that the biner and belay device twists to the side when the leader starts climbing).
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reg
Nov 14, 2005, 6:15 PM
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"If you look at this diagram from Climbing magazine, it is the opposite"
what is oppsite your technique compared to the drawing? the drawing is correct for ATC or Reverso.
i feel like an idiot :lol: ! help me!!
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kjf
Nov 14, 2005, 6:21 PM
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Well I've been catching falls safely for 12 years now, so I can't be doing something that wrong! It might just be some weird picky thing they are into here in this strange foreign country where I live in now...
sorry I can't explain it better, probably because it is really a very trivial difference.
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reg
Nov 14, 2005, 6:25 PM
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"Yeah squierbypetzl,I think you understand what I mean...
But I would say that in the diagram in the climbing mag it looks like breaking end is on top, the lead rope is on the underside of the device (except that the biner and belay device twists to the side when the leader starts climbing). "
the diagram shows braking "end" on the BOTTOM and climber "end" on top!
the reason for a belay loop is to allow your device to rotate somewhat. when first clipping it onto your harness there will be a sideways lay to the setup but will align as soon as you take slack.
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reg
Nov 14, 2005, 6:27 PM
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maybe there are refering to your locker which could be upside down! is that it?
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trenchdigger
Nov 14, 2005, 6:43 PM
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In reply to: the diagram shows braking "end" on the BOTTOM and climber "end" on top!
Not really. Look again... closely. Though the pic shows the brake end going down, it's actually on the top side of the device. The drawing is deceptive.
To the OP: The flexibility of the belay loop should negate any awkward angles. If you find you're braking over the side of the device, you should probably reorient the device next time as this type of braking will induce twisting into your rope. As long as you're comfortable braking straight over the back of the device with it oriented in this position, it really doesn't matter.
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sasuke
Nov 14, 2005, 6:44 PM
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All I can figure out is that the belay loop is twisting so that the atc/reverso is oriented correctly. Not sure why you would want that as opposed to just clipping in with everything already oriented.
So, when you first clip in, the brake rope is up and the lead rope is down. Then once there is tension put on the rope, everything twists on the belay loop so now the brake end in down and the lead end is up. Is this what you are talking about?
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scrapedape
Nov 14, 2005, 6:45 PM
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Part of the problem here is that you're using a shitty cartoon drawing to try and ilustrate what you mean. The picture is intended to go with a discussion of palms-up vs palms-down belaying, not a discussion of how to orient your belay device and biner. So the artist has evidently not paid enough attention to drawing the orientation of the belay device and biner in a realistic way that would occur in practice. Sloppy.
Forget the drawing for a minute. What is your question, again? You seem to be considering two alternatives for how to orient your belay apparatus. Can you spell them out clearly in words? This may take a few minutes to make it clear, but if you take the time it will make your question much more understandable.
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misanthropic_nihilist
Nov 14, 2005, 6:45 PM
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I think the way that the picture depicts will only work with braking to either side. Having the brake strand of the rope oriented downward seems to allow braking to either side, as well as braking straight down (between your legs) without excessive twisting of the belay loop.
Since the belay loop is fabric (i.e. flexible), I doubt the orientation matters. I'd also say 12 years of use might be enough to prove your method works too.
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squierbypetzl
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Nov 14, 2005, 7:02 PM
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I just looked carefully at the drawing and (as trenchdigger apparently already mentioned), the drawing is in fact flawed.
If you look closely, either the atc or the biner are oriented in the wrong direction (twisted).
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squierbypetzl
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Nov 14, 2005, 7:02 PM
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I just looked carefully at the drawing and (as trenchdigger apparently already mentioned), the drawing is in fact flawed.
If you look closely, either the atc or the biner are oriented in the wrong direction (twisted).
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reg
Nov 14, 2005, 7:10 PM
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in the drawing the biner is upside down.
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jt512
Nov 14, 2005, 7:23 PM
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In reply to: best thing for you to do is go to the gym and ask the instructor(s) if your doin something wrong - do it sooner then later.
:lol:
Jay
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