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thetrojanrabbit
Nov 9, 2005, 1:56 AM
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I'm planning on doing a winter traverse of the Presidentials up in NH this winter, and trying to find some of the right gear. Right now I'm thinking I want the Arctis Expe from Koflach and the Sarken SL from Petzl. I'm curious as to what what anyone thinks of these items. I'm also trying to find a place to try on some Arctis Expes or any Plastic boots for that matter (preferably Koflach). I've done a little bit of searching (including calling Atomic - Koflach - but their dealer locater was down) and I haven't found anything near the Blacksburg, VA area. So if you guys have any hints on sizing for plastics in general, I'd love to hear it.
Oh and I'll also kill for some info on the Whites.
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jimdavis
Nov 9, 2005, 2:25 AM
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the expes are designed for use in high altitudes and their liners will wear out faster. your foot will have more room to shift around in them too.
make sure you'll still have dead air space with a pair of heavy socks/ VBL's and you'll be good. size em a little snugger for climbing.
get the verticals or degrees though. the degree is a better hiker, the vertical climbs better.
a good ole pair of flexible 12 points would probably be best. maybe grivel g-12's, bd sabertooths, or charlet vaseks or blackice's.
have fun,
Jim
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rockmad
Nov 9, 2005, 2:49 AM
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I agree with the G-12's I used them when I go to NH. Never have problems. I also hiked in a pair of Montrail Verglas(spl) even though they are leather the stiff wood shank and thinsulate insulation was great. If you have never worn hard plastic they are heavy. Your best bet is to find a local REI, I think they sell Scarpa plastic boots. Sock liners dont hurt either.
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thetrojanrabbit
Nov 9, 2005, 2:58 AM
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I called the closest REI and I checked with the REIs in the DC area. They're all happy to order it, but I need to find the right size. I was going with the Petzl Sarkens. they look like they'll work better for more things then the Petzl Vasak will.
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fixednut
Nov 9, 2005, 3:18 AM
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I have a friend who traversed the Presidentials in early March a few years ago. He wore some leather army boots with some overboots. I'm not sure what kind of crampons he had, but they were probably of the basic Grivel strap-on variety (not sure if he used them much or at all). It was also the case that it was very cold with quite deep snow, and he did not use skis or snowshoes. Nevertheless, he was successful. My point is that whatever nice plastic boots and crampons you buy, they will likely be just fine for this purpose. For sizing in general, I wear plastics the same size as my street shoes and it works out perfectly for me.
I plan to traverse the range in December if there is reasonable weather. What else would you like to know?
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thetrojanrabbit
Nov 9, 2005, 10:05 PM
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I'm not expecting the traverse to be too difficult, mostly just putting up with the weather.
Currently I'm trying to decide if we should camp below tree line, or if we should just find a sheltered spot on the ridge to make camp.
I'd also like to know if there is any sort of shuttle service that might drop us off or pick us up at either end.
And any old information you think might be helpful.
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fixednut
Nov 9, 2005, 11:33 PM
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In reply to: I'm not expecting the traverse to be too difficult, mostly just putting up with the weather. Currently I'm trying to decide if we should camp below tree line, or if we should just find a sheltered spot on the ridge to make camp. I'd also like to know if there is any sort of shuttle service that might drop us off or pick us up at either end. And any old information you think might be helpful.
It'll be strenuous, but not technically difficult at all. You are right, however, that the weather can be very nasty which is, of course, the appeal.
As for camping, I believe the White Mountain National Forest regulations prohibit one from camping above tree-line unless there are more than two feet of snow on the ground. If, however, that is the case and you decide to camp on a ridge, you can probably expect to get thoroughly worked for at least one night (make sure your tent is bomb-proof and well anchored).
I think that the AMC runs some sort of shuttle service like the one you have in mind, but I don't know what time of year it operates.
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rockmad
Nov 9, 2005, 11:41 PM
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Check with Pinkham Notch, they should be able to get you information about the shuttle. I know the shuttle runs in the summer, the only thing is you need to be at the pick-up drop-off site when they get there, or you may be waiting or walking.
If you plan on hiking on the Tuckermans Ravine trail you can expect ice, thats one of the only times I needed my crampons.
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coreyr
Nov 10, 2005, 12:53 AM
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I own a pair of verticals and arctis expe's. I use the verticals on Rainier and find them to be more comfortable. However, for warmth my arctis expe's were awesome on McKinley. Good luck!!
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jimdavis
Nov 10, 2005, 1:24 AM
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In reply to: I have a friend who traversed the Presidentials in early March a few years ago. He wore some leather army boots with some overboots. I'm not sure what kind of crampons he had, but they were probably of the basic Grivel strap-on variety (not sure if he used them much or at all). It was also the case that it was very cold with quite deep snow, and he did not use skis or snowshoes. Nevertheless, he was successful. My point is that whatever nice plastic boots and crampons you buy, they will likely be just fine for this purpose.
Good point.
I had a buddy who got up to the ridge on Mt Washington in the winter, in bad conditions, then realized he was wearing a cotton shirt. Seasoned guy too, had done peaks in equador, WFR instructor, ect...just slipped his mind.
Having the right gear is important, but hobnailed boots and waxed cotton jackets got a lot of people to the top of some hard peaks.
:arrow: Oh, and the company which you mentioned is anal about their pro purchase program, i'd remove that from your post before you loose it.
Cheers,
Jim
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thetrojanrabbit
Nov 10, 2005, 1:59 AM
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They'd have to be pretty anal to figure out exactly who I am, but thanks for the heads up.
But I have to say, Camel Bak has the most annoying pro purchase policy.
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jimdavis
Nov 10, 2005, 2:22 AM
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In reply to: They'd have to be pretty anal to figure out exactly who I am, but thanks for the heads up. But I have to say, Camel Bak has the most annoying pro purchase policy.
Who is CammalBak affiliated with...I can't remember anymore...is it Watermark/ Confluence now?
I think it is...or are they free again after the merger, like Yakima now is?
Cheers,
Jim
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thetrojanrabbit
Nov 10, 2005, 2:24 AM
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So far is I know they are independent, but I was shocked when I learned this week that Atomic owned Koflach.
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aikimac
Nov 11, 2005, 10:25 PM
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Everything you ever wanted to know about the traverse...
http://chauvinguides.com/PresiTraverse/presiguide.htm
And you could always rent boots, crampons etc in North Conway at IME
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thetrojanrabbit
Nov 11, 2005, 10:30 PM
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Thanks, I didn't find that in my previous searchs.
I had thought about renting gear, but I was going to do it through EMS. They only reason I'm looking at buying now is that my parents are willing to pay for it as a present. I also figure I'll be more likely to go on trips if I own, and if nothing else it makes my penis look bigger.
But I'll have to look into IME and find out their rates, thanks.
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esp71
Nov 12, 2005, 2:12 AM
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I'd suggest that you should have some snowshoes with you, if the conditions warrant. The presidentials can be bulletproof ice, bare rocks and knee deep snow all on the same trip.
I don't want to sound like a scoutmaster, but whatever you do, take the weather seriously. They are basically the tallest objects south of the arctic circle out here and they get pounded by the weather. I can think of 4 deaths in the last couple years just off the top of my head.
Some of them were people who made a lot of poor descisions, but there were some real experienced folks who got ambushed by the weather: a ranger who froze to death in his tent and a couple who got caught in a big snowstorm and couldn't get out for several days, the woman died. Those are just the ones that come to mind. I grew up in the west and I tend to underestimate the whites 'cause they don't seem so big, but every year it seems that I am reminded of how dangerous they are.
That said, you will most likely have a great time. Get the AMC White Mountain Guide and the Brad Washburn map. The Perch, a tent site and shelter on the north side of MT Adams is a good place to run to in bad weather and I think that either Crag Camp or Grey Knob stays open all winter. Check out the Randolph Mountain Club for info on which one.
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toml
Nov 16, 2005, 1:26 PM
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You could rent through IME or EMS, as you like. I'm guessing you'll be renting snowshoes even if you do get some gear from your parents.
The Traverse involves zero 'technical' i.e. steep climbing that would require frontpoints or serious crampons. Getting up onto the ridge and down off of it, in the trees, will be mostly packed snow if you are on the main trails (i.e. successful normal traverse), probably with the odd frozen stream area (10' of flat ice to cross) and snowshoe hell if you bail early onto an escape trail. On the ridge itself you will frequently be crossing large areas covered with ice as the snow blows off. You'll want crampons that bite well because of the wind, but the ice is frequently thin and/or rocky, so if you're worried about keeping your nice new crampons from abuse, watch your footing (lots of extra work but it can be done). Old, crappy, but sharp crampons would be ideal for speed and ease of mind.
Boot choice has been covered in this forum better than I could; get good boots that you can hike in all day - which means choose your plastic boot carefully...
Another note: you're hiking a lot of miles, so boots and crampons will weigh heavily. Remember a pound on the foot is roughly equivalent to 5 pounds in the pack. Depending on the boot, you may be able to save some weight with custom liners, esp. if the 'rents are paying.
The AMC shuttle won't help you, but their lodge at the southern end of the 'standard' traverse route is a great place to wind up at the end of the day. Warm food, a beer, showers, etc. And you can hitchhike the next day - slow but it'll get you there. Hitching a ride from the AMC itself may work well esp. if you make friends with people at dinner/breakfast.
Camping on the ridge is asking for trouble. The Chauvin guide, if I remember, has some detailed beta on camping off the ridge.
Also, check the weather (duh) but also to take note of the direction of prevailing winds during your traverse. It can make a big difference to be hiking with the wind instead of against it.
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