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threefox
Aug 5, 2002, 11:46 AM
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I'm getting ready to add a set of cam's to my rack. I've read the reviews but what I really want is some first hand input. I'm a BD guy by nature but I'm open to suggestions. What have you found that works best and why..?
Adam
[ This Message was edited by: threefox on 2002-08-05 04:48 ]
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climbingcowboy
Aug 5, 2002, 12:36 PM
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I love my BD cams, after listening to everyone talk about Aliens I started adding Aliens to my rack and now they are quickly becoming my favorite, espically for aiding they are sooo cool. I dont know this for sure since I've never climbed in sandstone with pro but I think the metolious fat cams are supposed to be great for the that. I guess it depends on what you want um for.
My vote Aliens and BD
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radistrad
Aug 5, 2002, 1:40 PM
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BD Camalots-excellent range and great radius on the lobes, highly recommended, you get what you pay for.
CCH Ailens-excellent range, great strength, fit pin scars like no ones business, narrow head width for shallow placements, Hybrids are superior in pition scars, you get what you pay for.
Wild Country-poor range, wide head, funky cam angle, they just dont seem to fit as well.
Metiolus tri cams-back bones for pin scars, fit pin scars well (but not nearly as well as AIlens), rotate on the middle lobe, decent range, good strength.
Metiolus quad cams-decent cams, I feel that they rotate more than the BD's or AIlens, fair range of motion.
I have WC's, Metiolus, Ailens and Camalots.
I avoid my Met's and WC's, the are just not a good as the AIlens or Camalots. I think you really do get what you pay for.
I know lots of people love the WC and Met. camming units, I think you'll find more like the BD and Ailens...
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tim
Aug 5, 2002, 2:16 PM
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I love the old Wild Country rigid friends, they are cheap as dirt and (if you get used to their peculiarities) very intuitive. More durable than probably any other camming unit, if you tie them off through the stem holes to reduce leverage in horizontals. I'm probably going to buy another couple of them on eBay for about $15... I have a pair that I bought from Tim Kemple for $10 + some old Fins, too.
Use 'em all the time (especially when my #2 Camalot is sitting in a "friend"'s apt. in California... grrr...).
That said, I own a full set of Camalots and carry at least 0.5 through 3 on almost any trad climb I do. The great thing about a Camalot is that, although heavy and expensive, if you have an idea of what size unit "should" fit in a crack, chances are best with a Camalot that you'll be right, because of their super-wide expansion range.
Metolius TCUs are also great. I got a good deal on a full set (purple, blue, yelow, orange, red) for about $150 from CMI when I was in college. Short of a pro deal, I don't see how you can do much better than that for top-quality three-cam units. I'd buy them again for sure.
I have a single Wild Country tech-friend (0.5) that I never use. It sucks ass. I would not buy those again. I'm not sure why it sucks so much, but it never seemed to work for me, so I eventually gave up carrying it. Note that the Rigid Friends I have (in the range #1 through #3 particularly) are fine.
My best friend and former climbing partner (who moved to New Zealand) gave me a yellow Alien for Christmas. I like it a lot and am thinking of maybe getting a black one, too.
EDIT: Woops, that would be Green, not black. I already have a 0.33" aid piece, the gray TCU. Anything else that size needs to hold more than just bodyweight, IMHO.
I am interested to see how the Zero Cams will stack up. They seem expensive but I'd like something that fits better in really thin cracks than my Lowe Balls do, esp. for aiding and North Carolina runouts . I might consider buying some (or trying to weasel a pro deal of some sort) if they are as good as people say. The grey and purple Metolius units are not very strong, to put it mildly, so the #3 and #4 Zeros are the most interesting to me.
Basically, you are likely to end up with a set of normal-to-big size cams (probably Camalots if you're like everyone else on the planet) and a set of thin-crack cams (seems like everyone ends up with Aliens or TCUs sooner or later, though perhaps the Zero Cams will make a splash). If you do much crack climbing you'll end up with doubles. I would suggest that you at least consider ponying up for the Camalots, as you really do get what you pay for with them; if you have a burning desire to Not Pay A Lot For That Camming Unit, you can get a screaming deal on pieces that will last forever (properly maintained) by looking for old Rigid or Forged Friends.
YMMV...
[ This Message was edited by: jabbeaux on 2002-08-05 07:39 ]
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fitz
Aug 5, 2002, 7:16 PM
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I'd have to agree with other posters, for general trad use you can get a lot of mileage out of a #1, #2, and #3 Camalot. They have their detractors, but I think that these three sizes deserve their fame.
Although I own one, the #4 is just too big and heavy (accept when you _really_ need it!). By the time you get to #5 range, I'm partial to Big Bros myself.
Smaller then #1, I never liked the old Camalot Jr.'s, but I am more partial to the newer Micro Camalots. .75, .5, .4, .3 are all pretty nice pieces. A little heavy, but strong and lots of range.
For just smaller than finger, I don't know what I like. I've played with Metolious TCUs, CCH Aliens, and the .1 and .2 Camalots. I futz with all of them until I'm pumped, decide they are worthless placements, then spend still more energy placing nuts instead...
-jjf
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stevematthys
Aug 5, 2002, 7:45 PM
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i use camalots for sizes .75 and up, and colorado custum hardware aliens for sizes red and below
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transse
Aug 5, 2002, 8:08 PM
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I think Camalots are a good piece of gear, and worth the cost. Although, they there is a staggering weight difference between them and other cams. I have a full set of camalots, but on a usual climb I take a full set of TCUs for small placements because for there size I feel they just fit better. I carry the .3-2 Camalot, and 2-3 Forged Friends. My recomendation is to mix up brands and still cover your bases. Check out catalogs for expansion ranges and you will be able to fit any weird flaring placement because you will end up having 1/4 sizes of pieces. Up to you in the end? The only thing I can say is, for cheap cams don't buy crap, just go ahead and buy forged friends, you'll be happier in the long run.
Jake
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hendicrimpin
Aug 5, 2002, 8:17 PM
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i've got the #1,2, and 3 camalots (like everyone else), but i'm also a broke college student....so i took a chance and bought a set of rockempire robot cams (a set of 3 TCU's and 1-5 cams), and they only cost 240.00 dollars for the whole set. i love these cams! the 4 and 5 cams are a little walky, because the two middle lobes are set close together - but the other cams and especially the tcu's have a very smooth action and a good range. has anyone else had problems with them? cause i haven't. Keep in mind you do get what you paid for, but all these cams have to pass very rigid standards - so its really mostly each climbers preference.
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natec
Aug 5, 2002, 8:34 PM
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Here's my suggestion.
Buy Camalots .5-2 1 ea.
Then buy Tech Friends 1.25-4.
Buy Aliens in the smallest sizes because they are the best small cams.
With the camalot friends combo, you will have triples in the fingers to hands sizes. With the camalots being in between the friends sizes, it works out very very nicely.
This is what I'm using right now (with the exception of the aliens cuz I don't have the money to get them yet). Several other climbers around the Valley and elsewhere have remarked on how versatile and prepared my rack is because of my combo.
A lot of guys I really respect on this site have ragged on Tech Friends. I have two things to say about it. #1 The small sizes (#1 and down) aren't as good as aliens but are better than the comparable camalots. #2 The tech friends kick ass in terms of versatility in different kinds of rock. If a person is brough up on Camalots, they may not like the friends for the simple reason that they have to adjust what size and color they are looking for. If you build your rack with both you really have the best of all the worlds.
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beyond_gravity
Aug 5, 2002, 8:40 PM
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dont use cams. I'd rather climb easy routes on passive pro then hard routes on active pro.
well, mainly because I cant afford them
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threefox
Aug 5, 2002, 8:48 PM
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Hey....outstanding replies. Thanks to all that have helped me out so far.
Adam
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tradklime
Aug 5, 2002, 8:53 PM
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I used to be a complete BD follower. However, as I built my rack up, they became painfully too heavy and bulky. They are great, but it wasn't worth it to me. So I sold them and bought a lighter set and have been glad that I did.
Aliens rule! Especially in the small sizes but they are all good.
In my opinion, the best cams to buy are the single stem cams on acmeclimbing.com. They are a great balance of weight, flexability, and quality. And at $219 a set you can't go wrong. They are the exact same as Trango Flexcams and Kong Cam-a-sutras. They also include a doubled-up runner and machined cam stops, which are great features.
Personally I don't like double stem cams and Forged friends are dangerous if loaded over the stem.
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sagarmatha
Aug 5, 2002, 11:06 PM
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I am for WC rigid friends. Cheap, durable, reliable. Last forever, a must on my rack (I've got 9, some are ten years old and still go strong!), to be complemented by flexible stem units (for shallow horizontal placements) and Aliens for sizes smaller than 1. IMPORTANT: try before you buy! Some people are crazy about HB, some others hate them. The feel-in-your-hand factor is very important with climbing gear, if you aren't comfortable handling the gear you won't use it, and it will be only added weight on your gear sling! Cheers
[ This Message was edited by: sagarmatha on 2002-08-05 16:08 ]
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tim
Aug 5, 2002, 11:21 PM
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WANK ALERT
It had to happen. Yet another "Rigid Friends are dangerous" post. Well folks, that's what the f---ing holes in the stem are for! You tie the damn things off and load them off a very short (1 1/2") length of bar stock in practice (eg, the strong part of the rigid stem -- clipping the tie-off cord instead of the usual sling. Use something like Vectran or Gemini and whammo, that bastard has the same breaking strength as a friggin' Hex!
Anything else -- cam angle, feel, weight, whatever -- is debatable, but anyone who can't spend a few minutes to tie off rigid friends doesn't deserve to own cams that good
[ This Message was edited by: jabbeaux on 2002-08-05 16:24 ]
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nailzz
Aug 5, 2002, 11:23 PM
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It's off the main topic but it was brought up ...
Quote:
I dont know this for sure since I've never climbed in sandstone with pro but I think the metolious fat cams are supposed to be great for the that.
Aye, that is correct. FatCams are designed specifically for softer rock (e.g. sandstone). The wider lobes give them more surface area on the rock and lowers the chance that they will bust the rock away (making your placement pop) if and when they are weighted. Basically, the force of the fall is spread over more of the surface area of the rock so each 'portion' of rock is being stressed less than if you would use a regular cam.
Back onto the point ...
I love my Metolius TCUs. I got a really good deal so I bought 3TCUs and 3 Power Cams. I like the Power Cams also but like it has been pointed out they don't have the range of BDs. I will probably buy Camalots next and start with some smaller Aliens after that.
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crackaddict
Aug 6, 2002, 12:25 AM
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Well I have to go with climbingcowboy on this one. Fat cams will work on sandstone. But I would'nt bother with buying them though.
Stick to buying BD's and Aliens.
And buy alot for sandstone.
Have fun spending money.
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tradklime
Aug 6, 2002, 3:34 PM
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"Yet another "Rigid Friends are dangerous" post. Well folks, that's what the f---ing holes in the stem are for!"
Oh that's what they're for???
Everyone has an opinion, ususally based on something. I've seen several busted forged friends in the back of cracks.
I've also climbed on them many times. They're fine and can be placed well but cables on more modern cams won't break. Why bother then? Why have somethings else to mess with when you're pumped? Why be concerned that with the rigid stem that cause the cam to walk easier?
Especially when a person is new to the sport, perhaps something that takes less experience is better.
We're here to share opinions, the above is mine.
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timmyclimber
Aug 6, 2002, 9:53 PM
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Has anyone tried splitter gears 2 and 4 cams?? what did you think?
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gazony
Aug 7, 2002, 1:45 AM
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Well i havent been climbing that long and i dont use my cams too much and i dont have preference, i just went with a good deal, i bought #.25-5 from www.acmeclimbing.com(they are kong split flexs) and they work fine. but i dont kno much bout this stuff. i got the whole set for $220(thats abotu $26 a cam) latas
Rick
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philbox
Moderator
Aug 7, 2002, 2:02 AM
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Having tried the Splitter cams, both the two cam units and the four cam units, I`m leaning towards recommending them for aid. If I was a new climber I would not be getting Splitter cams for my rack. They are more a specialist tool, good as they are. Hey if you think that you have the rock with the sort of features that Splitter cams love then by all means get them but don`t just run out and buy them.
...Phil...
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joemor
Aug 7, 2002, 2:23 AM
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the featured article is a review on "splitter gear cams"
joe
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climbingcowboy
Aug 7, 2002, 3:06 AM
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I havent used these ACME cams, but there is something concerning about a set of cams for
$220, And with name Acme isnt that what Wylee Coyote used to buy to try to catch the roadrunner and his equip. always almost killed him!
Stick to BD and Aliens
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wildtrail
Aug 7, 2002, 3:35 AM
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I'm more of a passive pro guy (nuts, hexes, etc), but I have some cams and I have taken some falls on them and I've seen cams pop loose on falls (once on me) and one cam I haven't had a problem with, was the Alien.
However, there will be stories about all the cams. They have all popped from time to time (and that isn't to say that passive pro hasn't). Look into where you'll be climbing mainly, and talk to the climbers there to get their recomendations. I think all cams are nice, and they all serve a purpose.
Steve
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billcoe_
Aug 7, 2002, 4:04 AM
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I've climbed manymany years and never placed an alien on lead. Looks like I'll have to buy some.
I generally agree with the advice here. If I was poor, I'd buy a used set of ridged Friends. (pay real close attention to Jabbeaux there, he speaks the truth) I once saw a $ 1 1/2 or #2 ridged friend hold about 350 plus lbs that fell over 100 feet. (Both folks died still hanging on the cliff as the life drained out of their bodies) It was only half way in a rotten placement. Unbelivable holding power. A friend and I used it to hold the belay to lower them off. (real hard to back up, but backed up it was!!!)
I have lots of cams, but as I climb infrequently, the BD'S are the best for me. I'm much more likely to grab the correct size when pumped and gasping for air. The advice Fitz and Radistad gave is solid and I totally agree. You really get what you pay for. Also, I own them all and have only used my #4 friend twice (same route - Reg. NW face on Half Dome). Have never used my big Camalots either and they're damn heavy to lug, so they tend to stay in the basement. What a waste.
Get doubles on the smaller sizes to hand cracks and rock and roll.
Regards:
Bill
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wildtrail
Aug 7, 2002, 4:33 AM
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I don't know Bill, I usually don't use cams, but I love the Aliens. Little bastards hold true. There are actually quite a few stories floating around Devil's Lake about Aliens holding. One accident that I reported on (I did/do some work for Accidents in North American Mountaineering) included an Alien. A guy took about a 10 foot fall onto a #3 Camalot and it was said it popped with ease (was said to be placed correctly by witnesses) causing a the fall to extend into a 20 foot whipper. Well, the little Alien caught the fall as the guy hit the deck just in time to avoid serious injury. His feet came down a little hard and he hurt his back, but it just stopped him short of a full fledged decking. I had one of my Metolius pop once. I haven't had any problems with the Aliens yet, but remember two things:
1. I don't use my cams much
2. I'm sure there are stories of the Aliens popping too
But, you already know this.
Steve
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