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tattooed_climber
Nov 18, 2005, 1:06 AM
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Well, i'm getting rid of my ugly bulky tied aiders and upgrading for REAL aiders..
just one question, and i have attempted a search with not much luck...
But what are peoples opinions about mixing a set of 6 step aiders with a set of 5 step?
i'm tall with a long reach (6'2)...i was just going to get a 2 sets of 6-step, but i figure i might as well research the topic
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ihategrigris
Nov 18, 2005, 1:31 AM
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Are you using 4 aiders or 2? If your using 4 than it works pretty good. I don't really see the need for 4 six steps. 2 6 step and 2 5 step works just fine.
Are you goin' aiding with Aaron (alpinist2)?
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tattooed_climber
Nov 18, 2005, 1:34 AM
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don't you mean aaron (aka striker)??
no, i sent him an email and he's emailin me back when he's going to squish to aid..
right now i'm just solo-aiding and solo-hookin...mainly for shits and giggles but i'm wanting to work on it and get more serious (hence buyin aiders)
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holdplease2
Nov 18, 2005, 6:38 AM
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Howdy:
The reason (IMO) to have at least one six step aider per pair if you climb with four aiders, or one each six step and a floating five step is as follows:
When you have placed high from your top or second step, but you need to bounce test, you will probably want to climb down into the third steps of your bottom piece. This means you can hold onto your bottom piece and try to avoid shock load if your top piece blows.
To bounce test the high piece from this position, you would like to be able to have the bottom step on the top piece easily accessible...in a five step aider this may hang a little to high for you. A six step will hang about right.
The only reason to not go all six step aiders is if you think that saving a whole foot of webbing on an aider on each pair or on your floater will reduce cluster factor.
I use two six steps, one per daisy, and a floating third aider (5 step) when I need it. One in five placements, probably. Using this system MIGHT be more time consuming from a clip and unclip perspective...but it reduces cluster enough that, for me, its worth it.
PS: VERY strongly recommmending Yates Ladders with the PVC spreader bar and the in-line steps. Comfy. Less snaggy. Coolio spreader bar and grab loop...bombproof.
Hope this helps,
-Kate.
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flamer
Nov 18, 2005, 8:54 AM
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I highly recommend using only 2 aiders. You'll move WAY faster. the difference's between 5 and 6?? Minimal. Kate makes a good point about bounce testing....but I've not had a problem going with 5 over 6 steps in this case...comes down to preference. What did you use when you tied them?
josh
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holdplease2
Nov 18, 2005, 7:12 PM
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Hey Flamer: On easier ground, two aiders is good, but do you do that on A3/4 and overhanging stuff, too? I just prefer the balance options when I have a third aider on harder stuff or really awkward climbing. Plus, using one foot kicked back in the second aider in the "rest step" is awfully nice...
Come to the valley this winter for a wall, Flamer.
-Kate.
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ricardol
Nov 18, 2005, 10:35 PM
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Its all really personal taste ..
but i found 2 aiders to work just fine on A3 .. and overhanging pitches .. it took a few pitches to dial in exactly how to work most efficiently with 2 aiders .. (I did South Seas with 2 aiders, and only used the floater for 2 moves on the entire wall)
If I was buying new aiders today i would get the following:
2 Yates Speed Ladders ..
1 Light Alpine aider ..
the yates ladders would be my primary aiders and the lgith alpine aider would be the floater.. (stowed away in a neat package)..
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holdplease2
Nov 18, 2005, 10:42 PM
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Yeah, and Flyin' Brian climbs with one (1!!!) aider. Huh.
-Kate.
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flamer
Nov 18, 2005, 11:55 PM
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In reply to: Hey Flamer: On easier ground, two aiders is good, but do you do that on A3/4 and overhanging stuff, too? I just prefer the balance options when I have a third aider on harder stuff or really awkward climbing. Plus, using one foot kicked back in the second aider in the "rest step" is awfully nice... Come to the valley this winter for a wall, Flamer. -Kate.
Kate,
I've used a floater in the past...but then I realised I could do the same shit with 2 aiders....just clip your second one on the same way you would a 3rd...less shit to carry, smoother movement. FASTER!!
I just did the Finger of fate clean with 2 aiders...most call it C3...I'd call it C2+ maybe C3-...but there was only 1 move of C3 and there was good gear all around it....the key to doing it clean was doing free moves between aid moves....and having only 2 aiders was good for this. The party behind us nailed.......
Winter wall in the valley??? No way!! But I'll meet you in Zion if you want....
josh
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holdplease2
Nov 19, 2005, 1:22 AM
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Congrats, Flamer! Way to keep it clean.
Dude, its 15 degrees warmer at night in the valley...and beautiful full sun days on Washington Column. You'd love it! There are some great routes just waiting...
If it rains you can sit it out and keep climbing. In zion, in the winter if the rock gets wet you have to bail b/c the sandstone weakens.
Seriously, I did four walls last winter in yos...all short sleves all day!
That said...I'll come to Zion to climb with you if you want...but river crossing in the winter sucks!
-Kate.
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flamer
Nov 19, 2005, 5:43 AM
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In reply to: That said...I'll come to Zion to climb with you if you want...but river crossing in the winter sucks!
That's why we're climbing desert shield!!!!
I believe you about the valley...it's just a really long way......
Beside's if it rain's in Zion we can go to RR!!!
josh
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holdplease2
Nov 19, 2005, 7:02 AM
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Dude, Desert Shield gets NO SUN. The lows will be around 15 degrees. Misery in the winter. Also, because it gets no sun, it takes a week or more to dry after precip. Combine that with any runoff that drenches the lower-angle "shield" headwall, and a winter climb is really not too possible. I've been to the base 3x in the winter, and not once was the rock dry.
We need the shield to be dry...super thin stuff...
We could climb Reanimator on Washington column, with 65 degrees during the day with full sun all day and 35 degrees at night...think about it.
I will climb Desert Shield with you ONLY if we can also climb Disco Inferno as well!
:)
-Kate.
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flamer
Nov 19, 2005, 3:48 PM
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In reply to: We could climb Reanimator on Washington column, with 65 degrees during the day with full sun all day and 35 degrees at night...think about it. I will climb Desert Shield with you ONLY if we can also climb Disco Inferno as well!
I just don't have the time to drive to the valley this time of year, but Reanimattor would be fun!!! I was thinking we should just forget the shit tube and toss our shit bags....what do you think?? :lol:
I'd totally be up for both DS and DI.....but your point about the weather is taken. What about moon patrol? or some other obscurity?
josh
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holdplease2
Nov 19, 2005, 4:56 PM
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Zion it is, then. I'll climb anything, but have a pretty weird thing about rivit ladders right now. Some sun would be best...
You just let me know. And I can come down about anytime.
So that others don't think we'd toss...Flamer and I would never toss Shitbags, but when we were climbing on the Column once, the team on Reanimator was tossing. We all, um "said some things".
Actually, one member of that offending team later came up with a cool thing...you put your shit bags in a mesh bag. They dry out by afternoon, no stinky tube to open. And where fire is legal (existing fire rings on el cap) you can burn them on the summit! Unline the "wall flower", it doesn't explode if it gets caught on something or disintigrate in the rain.
:)
-Kate.
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islandclimber
Nov 19, 2005, 8:13 PM
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I use six step and a five step together with no problems. Its really a matter of preference. The guy who taught me how to aid used a four step and a 2-step together!
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jackscoldsweat
Nov 19, 2005, 10:09 PM
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russian aiders. i am a believer. two trees. two cuffs. no fuss.
JCS
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holdplease2
Nov 19, 2005, 10:13 PM
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Yeah...the trick is getting the cuffs & hooks for them. I'd be there in a second. Do you know a source? Fish has the trees.
-Kate.
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golsen
Nov 20, 2005, 12:39 AM
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Back in the day, it was common to use a 4-5 step aider with a 2 step sub aider. So, if you are going with 4 aiders, two sets, then no problemo. However, some may not like it if you have different brands with different length steps.
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jackscoldsweat
Nov 20, 2005, 7:49 AM
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In reply to: Yeah...the trick is getting the cuffs & hooks for them. I'd be there in a second. Do you know a source? Fish has the trees. -Kate.
make them yourself....it's soo easy. a sewing machine, some webbing, a few peices of metal shapped similiarly to the hook design is all you need. user name jaybird2 made his own. simple design really. send him a PM. i'm sure he'd be gald to show you how or what steps he took. with pics too. they're equal if not just as good as ural alp designed hook/cuffs.
people get too caught up in buying everything they need without first considering if they could make it themselves. thinking the manufacturer is the only one with the know how. it's too bad really. a little determination and imagination is all you need.
next thing you know, you have your own label, others are ordering the design from you and you are saving up for a bar-tac machine:) and if your funnie, people will stick around to hear your stories of adventure on supertopo. are you reading this russ?
best,
JCS
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jaybird2
Nov 29, 2005, 8:30 PM
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JCS is very, very SPOT ON. Damn that Petzl ad! You people NEED this system. You know what they say:
Once you go russian... you hen na... nin........ ussian...
8^) .... :? ....
Okay, I don't know what they say and I can't think of any clever/tacky sexual innuendos. But imagine top stepping EVERYTHING that isn't totally overhung. Imagine "Piece-Stepping". I just came up with this term, but it is when you get even higher than a top-step and actually are hooked into the biner or thumb-loop on the piece of gear. A short guy like me (5'5") really profits from this system. I won't when everyone starts doing it though. Nothing is finer when I look back down and see a pitch-worth of pieces all spaced by 5 to 6 feet. Oh, and these things NEVER* tangle or get hung up on stuff.
Everyone can make there own stirrups for <$15/pair. You can spend more if you want them to look more... classy.
*basically never; if they do it all untangles with a quick flick of the wrist in a matter of seconds.
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crotch
Nov 29, 2005, 9:07 PM
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In reply to: they're equal if not just as good as ural alp designed hook/cuffs.
The Uralp cuffs suck. They loosen up real quick, fall down to your ankles, and you find yourself reaching down every move to thread the hook into each ring by hand. The hook is a bit too steep and needs to point out more to make getting into the trees easier. Also, the Uralp system needs more padding.
evanmfreeman also posted here about making his own cuffs. Here's the link http://www.rockclimbing.com/....php?p=703090#703090
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jackscoldsweat
Nov 29, 2005, 10:17 PM
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crotch
most of the time i value your opinion. and i understand your complaints concerning the hooks. loosening was a problem for me a few times...as the straps popped on me. talk about scarry. but a simple knot in each strap stopped this problem. the padding was never a problem for me. guess i've got fat legs or something.
anywho...to each his own.
JCS
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crotch
Nov 29, 2005, 10:26 PM
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In reply to: anywho...to each his own.
I probably came off too strong. I was pretty annoyed by the cuffs this weekend. I'll try em with knots and see how things go.
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jaybird2
Nov 29, 2005, 11:44 PM
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Again, if the system isn't perfect... fix it. Us, um bright, people that aid surely have enough ingenuity to improve a design. Since these things aren't mass-produced they aren't version 3.5, they are version 0.1. Don't rely 100% on the manufacturer. Take your own initiative to improve it. Spend 5 minutes at home depot and I am sure that you can find a good solution.
As for getting the hooks in... use your hands man! I use my hands everytime. If you climb on them a few times it will become second nature and you won't have to think or look at them while you do it. I can't imagine trying to do it without your hands each time. :shock: That's like saying, "... man... and you have to use your thumb to open those gates all the time on those carabiners... what a drag." Not trying to bust your chops man, but this is really a very simple and efficient system to use.
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