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raymondjeffrey


Nov 17, 2005, 7:23 PM
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Old timers compared to todays climbers
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What contemporary climbers remind you of the climbers of the 1950's and 60's? For example: What climber of today reminds you of say: Royal Robbins, Warren Harding, Layton Kor, Bob Kamps, Steve Roper, Chuck Pratt, Tom Frost etc. and why?

I think that todays Tom Frost would be Tommy Caldwell: important and impressive feats, incredible all around talent and both really nice guys.

Dean Potter reminds me of Henry Barber: super focused, with an elite solo resumes to boot.

Ron Kauk reminds me of Royal Robbins because they are both important pioneers in their own right and Ron seems to be dedicated to ethical climbing more than some of his contemporaries.

Anyhow, I'm bored at work so what do y'all think?


squierbypetzl
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Nov 17, 2005, 8:28 PM
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Dave Graham´s bouldering kinda reminds me of John Gill´s and (the guy who invented the V grade in Hueco)´s power problems.
Alex Huber´s free solos remind me of Largo´s.
Today´s Bachar would be... hmm there´s a couple candidates.
Who would yesteryear´s Sharma be?


brutusofwyde


Nov 17, 2005, 8:37 PM
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Fred Beckey is today's Fred Beckey.

Allen Steck is today's Allen Steck.

TM Herbert is, well... T.M.


phreakdigital


Nov 17, 2005, 8:49 PM
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i dont think there is a yesteryear sharma...the sport has evolved...being that sharma most notible climbing has been pushing the sport climbing grades...sport climbing allows for climbers to take other aspects out the picture...dificulty of placing gear...extra energy wasted and so on.


dingus


Nov 17, 2005, 8:50 PM
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I noticed this about old climbers vs. today's youth:

They're smarter for one. A helluva lot smarter. The old climbers that is.

And they have more money.

They are devastating opponents in a debate, absolutely destroy the kids these days, its pitiful really.

Now of course they don't climb so well anymore, these old climbers. Thats a fact.

And their skin tends to be wrinkled and sorta leathery.

They can't see worth a shit, none of them, not a one.

But on balance I don't think there would even be any climbers today if it weren't for the old climbers.

So all you kids should walk up to the nearest old climber, take her by the hand, pump it vigorously and thank her profusely, for giving your sorry asses something to do.

At least, that's how I see it from the newest chair down at the end of the porch at the Old Climbers Home.

DMT


deltav


Nov 17, 2005, 9:14 PM
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In reply to:
I noticed this about old climbers vs. today's youth:

They're smarter for one. A helluva lot smarter. The old climbers that is.

And they have more money.

They are devastating opponents in a debate, absolutely destroy the kids these days, its pitiful really.

Now of course they don't climb so well anymore, these old climbers. Thats a fact.

And their skin tends to be wrinkled and sorta leathery.

They can't see worth a s---, none of them, not a one.

But on balance I don't think there would even be any climbers today if it weren't for the old climbers.

So all you kids should walk up to the nearest old climber, take her by the hand, pump it vigorously and thank her profusely, for giving your sorry asses something to do.

At least, that's how I see it from the newest chair down at the end of the porch at the Old Climbers Home.

DMT


Well I will shake your hand anytime.
I have been climbing for only 15 years or so, but I was taught by an old timer.
I work with a unniversity program and see lots of guys who think that there isnt one thing any of us can teach them...morons.
So I hope your new rocker is quite comfy. Thanks for leaving behind a great sport.


chalkfree


Nov 17, 2005, 9:36 PM
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Personally I'd like to identify with the old timers, but I'm one of those damn young punks that likes to boulder with a rope and a rack on....

Nothing that makes those old timers POed quicker than somebody climbing harder than 5.9.

Now seriously I don't think there was a sharma like character. He's still so young that it's a little hard to say what he'll do. The question I really wanna hear answered is what generation Lynn Hill belongs too.


curt


Nov 17, 2005, 9:42 PM
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Nothing that makes those old timers POed quicker than somebody climbing harder than 5.9.

I'm your huckleberry.

Curt


builttospill


Nov 18, 2005, 2:57 AM
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nice line curt.


gunkiemike


Nov 18, 2005, 3:01 AM
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Alex Lowe is (was) Fritz Weissner. Tommy Caldwell might be Jim McCarthy.

Lynn Hill is prolly in a class by herself. But we could say that Beth Rodden is the next Lynn Hill.

Who's Yvon Chouinard now?


blind


Nov 18, 2005, 3:11 AM
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I guess this thread has been slightly hijacked. But yea, you old timers don't worry. Us young folks still remember you. I've learned more about climbing from the aged friends then anyone else. Ethics and all. I still don't send the hardest grades, but I do climb much purer then I once have.

Aaron


brutusofwyde


Nov 18, 2005, 4:49 AM
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So I hope your new rocker is quite comfy. Thanks for leaving behind a great sport.

He ain't left it behind, deltav. He's still out there, pullin' down, and what he leaves behind are new routes, and other climbers... in the dust. He jus' fetches up a chair at the end o' the porch once in awhile to catch his breath.

Brutus


statusfreejoy


Nov 18, 2005, 8:15 AM
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What about today's Reinhold Messner? Talk about hardman.


asandh


Nov 18, 2005, 8:44 AM
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:)


dingus


Nov 18, 2005, 8:56 AM
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In reply to:
dingus wrote:
In reply to:
So all you kids should walk up to the nearest old climber, take her by the hand, pump it vigorously and thank her profusely, for giving your sorry asses something to do.

dingus
I'm sure you were just trying to be fair and balanced in the specific gender referral you chose, but unless the term "old timer" refers only to climbers of the 80's and 90's I'm not sure your gender choice was appropriate in this discussion ... those old photos of women in dresses hiking up the Matterhorn not withstanding. :)

Fair and balanced? Nope. I am the opposite, I hate male pronouns. I hate that people use male pronouns when referring to both sexes, but at the same time the English language doesn't give us a unisex singular pronoun.

Historically speaking? 80s? 90s? Please. Betty Woolsey. She didn't wear a dress. She coulda kicked your grandpappy's ASSssssss (tm). Merriam Underhill? Phyllis Mundy? Bev Johnson? Liz Robbins? Ruth Mendenhall?

I suspect from an adventure quotient, these skirts coulda kicked BOTH our asses.

Cheers
DMT


dingus


Nov 18, 2005, 8:57 AM
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In reply to:
dingus wrote:
In reply to:
So all you kids should walk up to the nearest old climber, take her by the hand, pump it vigorously and thank her profusely, for giving your sorry asses something to do.

dingus
I'm sure you were just trying to be fair and balanced in the specific gender referral you chose, but unless the term "old timer" refers only to climbers of the 80's and 90's I'm not sure your gender choice was appropriate in this discussion ... those old photos of women in dresses hiking up the Matterhorn not withstanding. :)

Fair and balanced? Nope. I am the opposite, I hate male pronouns. I hate that people use male pronouns when referring to both sexes, but at the same time the English language doesn't give us a unisex singular pronoun.

Historically speaking? 80s? 90s? Please. Betty Woolsey. She didn't wear a dress. She coulda kicked your grandpappy's ASSssssss (tm). Merriam Underhill? Phyllis Mundy? Bev Johnson? Liz Robbins? Ruth Mendenhall?

I suspect from an adventure quotient, these skirts coulda kicked BOTH our asses.

Cheers
DMT


caughtinside


Nov 18, 2005, 9:20 AM
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Ron Kauk reminds me of Royal Robbins because they are both important pioneers in their own right and Ron seems to be dedicated to ethical climbing more than some of his contemporaries.

Kauk? That heinous rap bolter? :P


fishbelly


Nov 18, 2005, 9:23 AM
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Old climbers are young climbers that stuck it out. 20 or so years from now today's young climbers will be old washed up wannabees bitching about young climbers.

25 years from now
Any young punk climbing harder than 5.14 or V12 will piss you off, get used to it now. Using Fritz W as an example I will still be crankin 5.9


asandh


Nov 18, 2005, 9:26 AM
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:)


willywilderness


Nov 18, 2005, 9:28 AM
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I guess I'm sort of in the "in-between" age group. I have been climbing about 18 years and am approaching 50 (heck, I guess that might qualify me as an old-timer)! I'll admit that climbing used to be more fun for me mainly due to the climbers I climbed with 10-16 years ago. A lot of the old-timers I climbed with aren't in the sport anymore. Therefore, over the last 5 years I have had to hook up with climbers that tend to be younger and less experienced than I am. Here are some of my observations about "the younger generation of climbers":

1) It is harder to establish a sense of camaraderie and partnership with a younger climber. They tend to be a little more self-absorbed. They don't offer up the encouragement and support that an older climber who is comfortable with their self-image and accomplishments.

2) The younger generation seems to be more interested in self-promotion and making sure evryone knows about their climbing accomplishments. An older climber will tend to be more humble. Sometimes, you really have to "dig" information from an older climber about their ascents. I like the humbleness an oler climber exudes. To me it means they are comfortable with their accomplishments and self-worth.

3) The younger generation grew up with climbing when sport routes are more the vogue. I am constantly challenged to get a younger climber to go out and plug trad. Sure, they are willing to climb moderate trad but heaven forbid if you get them on a 5.10 or 5.11 trad route. Gues who ends up leading the harder pitches?

4) The younger generation tends to focus so much on just the physical aspects of climbing and ignore the technical and mental aspects of it. As I get older and my physical strengths wane I find myself drawing on my mental and technical strengths to compensate. I wonder if the younger folks will stick with the sport as their physiology declines?

These are just some observations of mine. I would like to add that I have had the pleasure to partner with some very enjoyable, competent younger climbers. These are just some general observations I offer up. I realize that times have changed and that culture and society has created a different environment from when I was young. I hope that someday I can find that ideal younger climbing partner that will lead me up some hard routes.


caughtinside


Nov 18, 2005, 9:33 AM
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In reply to:
raymondjeffrey wrote:
Ron Kauk reminds me of Royal Robbins because they are both important pioneers in their own right and Ron seems to be dedicated to ethical climbing more than some of his contemporaries.


caughtinside wrote:
Kauk? That heinous rap bolter?


..... also didn't Robbins have really short hair ? :)

Good point. Robbins also wrote informative climbing manuals, as opposed to producing hippy-dippy nature films with romps through meadow and o'er streams.

"I didn't ask my heart to beat, but it did." I nearly fell off my chair when I heard that one!


raymondjeffrey


Nov 18, 2005, 4:18 PM
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Couple of things: First I didn't know that Kauk was a rap bolter and that quote about his heart beating is really funny. He just kinda reminded me of Royal; can't really pinpoint why except that they both spent (are spending decades) in the valley etc etc.

Curt said: I'm your huckleberry. Great quote, I own a shirt with Doc's picture on it with that quote and I wear it climbing. My old man is a 'non-degreed' expert in Arizona history particularly 'Old West' stuff and he would be proud that Curt used that quote exactly as they would in the 1880's.

Also, I did not know that vivalargo was a big soloer.

And, I enjoy the comraderie that accompanies climbing. I know that you can find a bunch of younger climbers around really challenging boulders and hanging out but something seems to be missing in the way of comraderie. Plus I feel like an outsider around cliques; always have and feel that way less when in the company of older climbers who like the bigger stuff. Not to mention that I suck at bouldering and that may have something to do with it. But this is a cool thread and I am learning a lot. So keep the information about 'the way it used to be' coming.

Carry On,

Jefro


vivalargo


Nov 18, 2005, 5:20 PM
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The modern game is by and large (but not always) much more specialized. It used to be that a Yosemite "master" was solid on everything from runout slabs to offwidth to new big walls. The "goal" was to climb everything. The typical focus now is much narrower so the prowess within that grid is much higher, IMO. The old "hardman" was good at lugging loads and hauling pigs and was very skilled at getting up most any stretch of rock fast and efficiently. The modern article tends to be more of a honed mechanic, whereas the old school was full of adventurers and risk takers and thrill junkies. But it's still climbing any way yo shake it . . .

JL


roy_hinkley_jr


Nov 18, 2005, 6:06 PM
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Nothing that makes those old timers POed quicker than somebody climbing harder than 5.9.

Not all. What pisses them off is the kids thinking a route rated 5.9 in the '70s is still rated the same today, or more likely 5.10b, even though you have sticky rubber and cams. The BS of "it's the moves, not the gear" is always spewed by those with no clue. Much like a 5.6 put up in the 40's was under-rated by climbers in the 70s.

The numbers are higher these days, but the talent is no greater. Definitely a lot more hype now.


whipperman


Nov 19, 2005, 3:46 PM
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I'm by no means an oldtimer but I've been climbing long enough that I learned outside, on gear, and before bouldering pads. Here's something I've noticed...

young guys these days are strong as hell! Bouldering or in the gym I can't even approach their power, but get them on a rope and many just aren't willing to push their limits. What I've climbed and regularly climb on gear is only a letter or two below what I've climbed above bolts, which is just a hair below my V abilities too....so I guess I'm willing to push my physical limits above gear. The young crew that I know can't even approach their physical limits above gear. They're fully capable of climbing harder but don't have the technical or mental skills. Could be that they'll pick them up in another 10 years of climbing or could be that they'll just shy away from gear routes and stick with bouldering and sport.

I do however know a few climbers that seem to defy this generalization but they are the minority.

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