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gene723


Nov 25, 2005, 9:13 AM
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question about 2 unsaid rules of climbing
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Okay, so I've been climbing about 7 months now - TR, Trad, Sport - and I'm not sure if this is an unsaid rule of climbing or not but if one person brings the full trad rack is it the other person's "obligation" or "courtesy" to bring his/her rope?

Further, what about dropped gear like a camelot? If a person drops his/her partner's gear, does the person who dropped it pay for the lost gear is it something that the owner of the rack is supposd to overlook since this happens once in a while?


bobruef


Nov 25, 2005, 9:23 AM
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I think the real question is, how would your rope feel if it knew you went climbing, and it didn't get to go. Mine whines a lot durring the weekdays as it is. :lol:

I just always bring all of my gear. But I don't think that what you propose sounds unreasonable. And yes, If I dropped a partner's camalot, I would offer to replace it. If someone dropped one of my camelots, I'd expect them to offer, but I wouldn't let them pay for a new one (I'd probably still climb on it after inspection).

And if you do offer, and they take you up on it, I would expect that you'd get to keep the used camalot that you dropped. I hope that makes sense.

Peace,

Bob


squid


Nov 25, 2005, 9:33 AM
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No set rule, cause then who pays for the gas to get out there, and if that is the case does the other pay for lunch or snacks?


jason_martin


Nov 25, 2005, 9:34 AM
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I don't think either of these are unsaid rules.

Ask your partner if he or she would like you to bring a rope? I think the bigger courtesy is to make sure that one person carries the rack and one person carries the rope to the base of the climb. It's not so fun to be stuck with both.

On the second question, common courtesy dictates that you should offer to pay for dropped gear. This is especially important if your partner is not someone you climb with all the time.

Dropped gear is an unfortunate part of the game. Most people will brush off a dropped biner, but a dropped cam is more substantial. If you have one or two partners that you climb with all the time you might discuss dropped gear before you climb with them. Some people will split the difference, some people will expect you to pay the whole price, and others will shrug and say "oh well."

If you have an "oh well" partner that let you off the hook for dropping something of his, don't abuse that. If he drops something of yours you can't renege on that relationship. Courtesy in this situation dictates that you are the one to say "oh well" this time.

Jason


Partner tattooed_climber


Nov 25, 2005, 9:36 AM
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generally, you drop it, you pay for it

as for who brings what gear, that doesn't fucking matter


dingus


Nov 25, 2005, 9:55 AM
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These are more spoken rules of partnerships than they are unspoken rules of climbing.

Just work it out in advance. Like belay calls, that simple.

DMT


blueeyedclimber


Nov 25, 2005, 11:14 AM
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Much of the time, a dropped piece of gear is still useable, so it won't matter....BUT, it is not something to take lightly. Dropping gear can create a very dangerous situation. Do everything in your power NOT to drop gear. As I have gained experience, making sure I do not drop anything is just one of the things that goes through my head everytime I place gear, build anchors, clean gear, or exchange gear with my partner. A piece of gear that falls on someone could kill them. Do NOT drop gear!

As for partner etiquette, that is between you and your partner. If you have multiple partners it could be different for each one. In my experience, it's not that big a deal. I show up with my gear, he shows up with his, and we decide from there. You should talk things out with your partner, rather than ask advice from people who you will never rope up with.

Josh


estwing


Nov 25, 2005, 11:47 AM
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as a bit of a climbing slut (i'll climb with anyone once) i have a few theories on this topic.
if i am climbing with someone who has no non personal gear then i think of it as sort of guiding. if the drop something and its fine, forget it, if they drop it off a multi-pitch and its gone, then they buy.
if i am with a regular partner we split, or if there is a lot of booty envolved we make up the difference from the found lot.
as for gear usage, new partner with full rack, one brings their rope other brings rack, switch roles each time. for more serious routes mix up the gear, person whose rope didn't get used last time brings.

this has worked well for me, found more than i lost this summer, one person gave me 10$ for a dropped locker from up high, got some extra booty to replace a dropped nut, and said it was fine to a dropped cam and hex.


overlord


Nov 28, 2005, 12:44 AM
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In reply to:
Okay, so I've been climbing about 7 months now - TR, Trad, Sport - and I'm not sure if this is an unsaid rule of climbing or not but if one person brings the full trad rack is it the other person's "obligation" or "courtesy" to bring his/her rope?

Further, what about dropped gear like a camelot? If a person drops his/her partner's gear, does the person who dropped it pay for the lost gear is it something that the owner of the rack is supposd to overlook since this happens once in a while?

actually, if the one carries the full trad rack, the other should carry the rope. id doenst matter to whom it belongs.

and, yes, if you drop it, you bought it.


verticon


Nov 28, 2005, 1:02 AM
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When I lead the route I always use my own rack and rope because I know their history and I'm sure I can rely on them. If we take turns in leading, we plan the whole thing at home and choose the best pieces and rope from what we have. As for the dropped gear, if it's lost for good the one who dropped it will replace it. If lost & found, you inspect it and if damaged he'll replace it. But there's no rule involved, only common sense.


rockguide


Nov 28, 2005, 5:45 AM
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If you drop someone else's gear, offer to buy it. If you get their gear stuck, same thing.

If gear is sacrificed - left on rappels or retreats/fixed on new routes, everybody pays half.

With these rules in mind, I have paid more to people than have paid to me - I work at a loss here. I also have people happy to climb with me and I can forget the deadbeats.

As for the rope/rack question ... if one brings the rack the other should offer the rope and slings ... but in the end go with the best options. So if the person with the better rack also has the rope the right length/diameter/pattern then they may provide heavy here, but the other should be offering.

Brian


bill413


Nov 28, 2005, 5:57 AM
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Rope & Rack - I usually prefer to lead on my own rope & rack. But, not a big deal. If we're doing trad, there shouldn't be a lot of wear on the rope. If we're doing TR, it's nice to offer up the rope to be abused - if it's a regular partner, try & take turns.
I strongly agree with splitting the load while walking in. One person carries rack, the other carries the rope (of course, this breaks down with doubles).
Similarly, while climbing, I prefer that the leader carry the rack, and the second carry the pack (one for the party).
Dropped - I tend to resent people who drop or lose my gear & make no effort to replace it. So, the golden rule dictates that if I drop something, or potentially damage it, I should at the least, offer to replace it.
On at least one occaision, I went out & bought a piece (& it's attendant biners & draw), only to have the person say - no, I'll keep using the dropped one. Wound up with a nice new piece for myself. We both felt good.


johngchrist


Nov 28, 2005, 6:17 AM
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If the person you are climbing with can't climb as good as you they take on all gear and financial responsibilities, But usually I'm that person so we just divvy up the gear equally and split the cost and don't even think about it.

*edited for being dumb*


azrockclimber


Nov 28, 2005, 7:18 AM
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no....it doesn't matter....

Some people are overly concerned with that kind of thing but I am more than happy to use my gear and my rack...If I climb with someone who happens to be abusive to my gear then I may have an issue with using it...same with my rope...

other than that it is just a discussion.

However, usually one person will CARRY the rope and one the Rack...haha... I am more of a stickler about that!!


Partner angry


Nov 28, 2005, 7:26 AM
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As long as you don't make me carry the whole load and you've got an empty backpack, I don't care who it belongs to.

The gear thing is on a case by case basis. If you fixed my ballnut, I'd ask for a beer (I bootied it and epoxied it back together 6 years ago). If you fixed my #6 friend, I'd ask for your firstborn.


markc


Nov 28, 2005, 7:30 AM
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As others have said, these things should be hashed out in advance. If I offer to bring my rack, it's nice if the other person offers to bring slings or rope. I won't mind only using my gear, especially with newer climbers. With most long-term partnerships these things sort themselves out. Regardless of the decision, I'll still pack a rope and leave it in the car. It's nice to have a back-up in case you need it.

If you're worried about fixed/dropped gear, make an agreement up front and stick with it. Some people split the cost of fixed gear. For others, the person that's unable to clean it may pay. If you agree in advance, there is less likelihood of hard feelings or squabbling

Dropped gear is a bit different. In most instances, the blame is clear. If it's the occasional old biner, I'd probably let it slide. Were it a new cam (or a regular occurrence) I would expect replacement. I also wouldn't make a habit of climbing with someone that constantly fumbled gear.


z_rock90


Nov 28, 2005, 7:57 AM
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There are no rules in climbing, only reasons.


greenketch


Nov 28, 2005, 8:41 AM
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I'll throw in a second on the view that Markc posted. If a partner drops a piece I will usually let it go. If said person consistantly drops stuff I will get a little insistant on replacment. It is always better if they offer and I refuse than if they don't offer. On a similar note if you want to keep long term partners it is a good idea to have no unsaid rules. It works much better to be upfront.


lonequail


Nov 28, 2005, 9:19 AM
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I generally agree with the gist of the previous replies.

One item not mentioned is trying to remove stuck gear. If it is my gear then I prefer to be the one who attempts removal if the piece may get damaged in the process. I get irritated when partners yank upwards on nuts and have less than a delicate touch with any gear.


Partner euroford


Nov 28, 2005, 9:42 AM
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the only two rules in climbing are:

1. Don't do something that causes your death
2. If you break rule #1 don't take your partner with you


for the other topics covered in this thread, i guess it works out better for me, or i should say 'us' for the simple fact that for the past three years my partner and i have been pretty much monogomous (sp?) and worked out all of this stuff long ago.

being the gear freak of the two of us, i'm pretty much in charge of the rack, which is 90% my gear anyways. generally one guys carries the rack, the other carries the rope, or however we can best split the loads. this is also dependent on which packs each of us carries. if we need more gear than fits in two small packs one of us might carry a bigger pack, so what. when gear gets fixed or dropped it always gets sorted out, we are good friends so we don't argue over that kind of thing.

generally speaking, if i needed a bunch of rules just to get along with my partner, i would find a diffrent partner. my partner is one of my best buds, we have as much fun hanging out together as we do with the actual climbing.

ain't that the way it should be?


dingus


Nov 28, 2005, 9:48 AM
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In reply to:
I generally agree with the gist of the previous replies.

One item not mentioned is trying to remove stuck gear. If it is my gear then I prefer to be the one who attempts removal if the piece may get damaged in the process. I get irritated when partners yank upwards on nuts and have less than a delicate touch with any gear.

Thats funny and I know you're by no means alone, but I have to pretty much tell my new partners, 'Yank em."

I yank em when I place em and I spect the 2nd to yank em back out. I straighten them out periodically and if one gets trashed, well, I got about 25-30 wired nuts hanging from a peg on the wall in the garage... there is no shortage.

If the wire won't come out by hand, I'm yanking it 9 times out of 10. If you don't want your nuts yanked, don't set em so hard.

But I don't see the big deal with yanking them anyway. They don't last any longer, unless they're rp's or something.

DMT


Partner euroford


Nov 28, 2005, 9:53 AM
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i agree with that, if i spent even a couple of minutes trying to 'delicately' extract a nut i would feel like i'm seriously wasting time. yank em out, keep moving, straighten em up later if need be.


asandh


Nov 28, 2005, 10:09 AM
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:)


dingus


Nov 28, 2005, 10:18 AM
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In reply to:
come on guys, you're giving some pretty bad advice to novices here.

I had a better answer but I deleted it.

DMT


jv


Nov 28, 2005, 10:58 AM
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If you leave it unsaid, and assuming you both have a rack and a rope, there are at least three equally possible outcomes. You arrive at the crag with:
1) a rack and a rope;
2) two racks and no rope;
3) two ropes and no rack.

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