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ozoneclimber
Nov 18, 2005, 4:49 AM
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I'm looking into getting a new internal frame backpack somewhere between 3500 and 4000 cubic inches. I do some backpacking so I want something that I can take on a weekend-weeklong backpacking trip but it is also good for throwing all of my climbing gear in for a day at the crag, internal daisies, etc. So far I've looked at the Osprey Exposure 66, REI Gemini, Gregory Alpinisto, and a few others. Hoping to keep it at $200 or less if possible. If you have any suggestions or know of anywhere that I can get any of these relatively cheap, drop me a line.
Thanks,
Bobby
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canadasteep
Nov 18, 2005, 10:15 AM
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www.mec.ca
It's the best place for price to quality.
IT's Mountain Equipmetn CO-OP of Canada.
You can get a really good pack for $100 CDN I bet
Just take a look
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cradduck1
Nov 24, 2005, 9:52 AM
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I would try to find a place that will fit you for a pack and also let you wear a bunch of different packs around the store with some weight in them. Packs are like hiking boots. What fits on one person will be miserable on another. Once you get fitted and find the pack that you want you tell the sales person, "I will think about it," and then try to find the same pack for the cheapest price possible (most of the time that cheaper price would be found online).
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yak
Nov 24, 2005, 10:08 AM
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In reply to: I would try to find a place that will fit you for a pack and also let you wear a bunch of different packs around the store with some weight in them. Packs are like hiking boots. What fits on one person will be miserable on another. Once you get fitted and find the pack that you want you tell the sales person, "I will think about it," and then try to find the same pack for the cheapest price possible (most of the time that cheaper price would be found online).
Why don't you ask the salesperson who spent all that time fitting a pack to you if he can give you a better price, than saying 'i'll think about it' then go and buy on line.
We're considering not keeping gps's at our shop because we spend 20 mins with customers explaining differences between models,showing them the features then they go and buy online, yeh it's cheaper but they don't get any customer service from the internet.Why should we offer customer service if they're not going to be a customer.
And to op, i'm a big fan of macpac packs but they're a new zealand company,not sure if they're in the states.
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devonick
Nov 24, 2005, 9:42 PM
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yea im a big fanof macpac too
this is the pack ive got
http://www.macpac.co.nz/products/display/catalogue/do,displayitem-view/mid,86/miid,2784/diid,730/
its a good small-mid sized pack that was designed for climbing
to get it in the states these are the retailers
http://www.macpac.co.nz/products/display/b2c/do,retailer-address-search/
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roshiaitareya
Nov 24, 2005, 9:50 PM
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I have a Lowe Alpine. It's a good pack, I've had it for 6 years or so, and I think it was only $169 for a 5000cc
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cradduck1
Nov 29, 2005, 2:52 AM
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I don't think that I have ever been in a place that would take money off the price just because you asked for it. REI, A16...none of them will do it.
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pulley
Nov 29, 2005, 3:35 AM
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I was looking at the osprey exposure 66 and didn't think that the hipbelt was all that good. I decided to buy the osprey aether 60 (3700 -3900 cu in). I use it for a climbing pack and also a weekend backpack. It is one of the most comfortable packs I have ever owned. I also like the side pockets for water bottles which i think are lacking on the exposure.
pulley
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climbingaggie03
Nov 29, 2005, 3:38 AM
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I think fit is the most important factor, but If it fits you, I like my gregory alpinisto, I also think that the Z-pack is a good pack for backpacking and probably pretty tough cause it's made with dyneema. I'm not a fan of Lowe Alpine packs, they slide off my hips, and I've had quality control issues with them.
Mountainsmith has some good pack models out right now (phantom, muse, ect.) they are in the 3-4 lb range and carry up to 4,000 cubic inches
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jeffrogers
Nov 29, 2005, 4:00 AM
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the bora 80 by Arc'teryx is a great pack if it fits you. They are expensive but they are the most burly pack I have ever seen. I think they won a bunch of awards.
Jeff
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socalmtb
Nov 29, 2005, 5:10 AM
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In reply to: I don't think that I have ever been in a place that would take money off the price just because you asked for it. REI, A16...none of them will do it.
I went to A16 to try on a $170 pack (weighting it and walking around the store). When I told the sales guy who was helping me out that I wanted to get the pack at A16 cause he was so helpful but I could easily get it cheaper at REI ($120), he offered to use his employee discount to get the pack for me.
Obviously, brick and mortar stores don't typically haggle, but I think if you are friendly and honest about your intentions on purchasing something or just trying something on, if the sales person is "good" he/she will try and help you out the best he/she can.
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salamanizer
Nov 29, 2005, 5:46 AM
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Try out Cold Cold World packs. They are made one at a time by hand and are the best QUALITY packs that are made for climbing and alpine. They have all the features you want and none of the ones you don't, and if you want something special, they will accomidate with no extra charge. They are the best, they are THE BETTER WAY.
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cradduck1
Nov 29, 2005, 10:32 PM
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Wow, I need to go shopping with socalmtb. I have never had that experience at A16.
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socalmtb
Nov 30, 2005, 4:33 AM
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In reply to: Wow, I need to go shopping with socalmtb. I have never had that experience at A16.
haha...that's one way of doing it i guess
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kubi
Nov 30, 2005, 7:04 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Wow, I need to go shopping with socalmtb. I have never had that experience at A16. haha...that's one way of doing it i guess
The local gear shop here in Pittsburgh will price match anything. I think they even do it within a few days of your purchase, in case you happen to find a better deal after you've already bought it. They don't match sale prices, though, only standard pricing.
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trenchdigger
Nov 30, 2005, 8:14 PM
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REI does make some good packs, but I wouldn't consider the Gemini to be one of them. Not a big fan... It's most definitely not a pack designed to carry gear for a week-long pack trip even if you pack relatively light.
Gregory packs are my personal favorite. My favorite crag/single-overnight pack is the Gregory Juxt, but at only 1700ci, it's probably smaller than what you're looking for. The Alpinisto at 2900ci looks nice too, but is still well under your desired 3500-4000ci. It would be tough to get a week's worth of food and gear into it.
What is your priority with this pack? Do you need a crag pack or do you need a pack that will work well for week-long backpacking trips? I use a 3800ci Gregory for week-long pack trips carrying up to 60 lbs and would never consider carrying a pack that size as a crag pack. Likewise, my crag pack simply won't carry enough for me to spend more than 2 nights in the backcountry.
You seem to be looking for a pack that will do everything. Well, there isn't one. Because of that you'll either need to prioritize your needs or buy multiple packs (I have 8 or so :roll: ).
You may have a hard time finding a good pack that will carry a week's worth of food, fuel, and gear comfortably for under $200 unless you are a minimalist and/or have ultralight equipment. What has your average pack weight been in the past for a week-long trip? 30lb? 40lb? 60lb?
My point is that even if a pack can hold 4000ci, it doesn't mean it's sturdy enough for you for a week-long backpacking trip. Just because it's got enough space doesn't mean the suspension will carry the load comfortably. Nothing sucks more on a pack trip than a painful pack.
For a do-it-all pack, I'd highly recommend checking out the ArcTeryx Needle 65 pack. It's in the size range you're seeking, has a great suspension system, and will last a lifetime. At $299, it's out of your requested price, but well worth it, IMHO. The Gregory Triconi for $249 also would fit the bill if your needs lean toward a backpacking pack.
If your needs swing more toward a climbing/crag pack, the Alpinisto may be a good option. Also check out the REI Catalyst 35 instead of the Gemini. It's a good, reasonably priced crag pack that will be sufficiend for weekend pack trips for most people.
As always, remember that fit is key with backpacks. What fits someone else may not fit for you. Be sure you are measured, get the right size, and have the pack adjusted properly before you write a pack off. It's amazing what a difference it makes.
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kubi
Dec 1, 2005, 4:38 AM
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I've got the Arcteryx RT 35. Its a little smaller then you requested, but it's under $200 (got mine for $150 on sale) and GREAT as a crag pack. The perfect size for a rack, water, bit of food, and perhaps a jacket or something. Very comfortable, great pack. Arcteryx packs are tough as nails, too. I have no doubt it's going to be years before I even consider replacing this bad-boy.
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klong
Dec 1, 2005, 4:54 PM
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In reply to: the bora 80 by Arc'teryx is a great pack if it fits you. They are expensive but they are the most burly pack I have ever seen. I think they won a bunch of awards. Jeff
I've got a bora 80 by Arc'teryx. It is an awesome pack. Its a bit big for just a day out. For that I use a cheap kelty, (3000/3500) about 80$... And it can take a lot of abuse... Rather than trashing a 300$ Arc'teryx.
In the Kelty i can fit the following:
2 water boltes in side pockets, luch and personal stuff on top..
trad gear, 10 QD's rope, harness and 2 pairs of shoes and a light jacket.
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jeapord
Dec 2, 2005, 11:43 PM
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I will say that you get what you pay for when you buy backpacks...I would suggest buying a Gregory or a Dana Designs, both are very expensive but their comfort is unmatched and comfort is most important when you have fifty extra pounds on your back!!
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renohandjams
Dec 6, 2005, 4:56 PM
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In reply to: I'm looking into getting a new internal frame backpack somewhere between 3500 and 4000 cubic inches. I do some backpacking so I want something that I can take on a weekend-weeklong backpacking trip but it is also good for throwing all of my climbing gear in for a day at the crag, internal daisies, etc. Thanks, Bobby
I broke my clips on my Osprey just tightening a strap and it took almost a month to get a replacement. The fact that it broke at all was ridiculous with what I was doing. I promise you won't go wrong with Vortex, my pack has ice axe loops, 11 compression points, and a big long daisy chain loop built in.
++ Vortex backpacks are covered with kevlar tacks, similar to what you see on dog bones, and harnesses, making them able to bost the life time warranty. http://www.vortexbackpacks.com/ If you go to SLC, UTAH you can get the packs right there for 15% off at their shop.
Winter Camping: My Osprey would always have problem getting ice crystals in my padding on the back which was always miserable to put on in the morning when it was 20 below outside, but the Vortex backpack doesn't because it's padding isn't as porous compared to Osprey, which I prefer.
Price: Vortex backpacks used to be made in the US all the way up to 9/11, but then were forced to go over seas like everyone else and now they have brought their most expensive pack down from 399 to 299 without changing the quality so they could compete with Osprey directly.
Osprey's are packs you get for your wife/girlfriend who won't beat it up.
Vortex's are packs you get for the crag.
I have an adjustable compartment seperator too that I can used to seperate all of my climbing gear from the other essentials that I need. Even if I was hanging at a belay point it wouldn't be a big deal to grab some climbing gear, or to get an extra wind breaker out of my pack.
HUNTING: If any of you hunt, I'm sure you've heard of BadLands packs, which are made by the same company, Vortex outdoors, but they just use Camo colored fabrics instead of the green or orange. If I hunted I would get a badlands and still use it for crag climbing.
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crackers
Dec 6, 2005, 7:11 PM
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Okay, gosh, i can't resist commenting any more.
again, i manufacture backpacks. its my job & my company. Again, as always, I do not mean to offend or cross the lines of this forum.
I think the best pack manufacturers in the world currently are myself, Mystery Ranch, Vortex, and a few people making custom bags.Edit: apparently the stuff i saw was atypical of the brand, and i'm cutting fairydown out till for now...see posts below
I think there is a lot of bad information in the industry. To take two simple examples, there is the 'waterproof' thing and the 'kevlar' thing. First off, the kevlar thing. Vortex apparently uses kevlar thread for their bartacks. I hope that's not true. Kevlar is very strong when used properly, but bartacking aint it. A friend of mine makes the world's most advanced parachutes out of the world's most advanced materials, but uses normal thread in assembling them. Why? Because for sewing, the strength of the thread is appropriate for even the strongest materials. Bartacking with kevlar or spectra or antron would be a total waste of time. Even if the (expensive) thread was stronger, which it isn't, the materials used in that bartack render the practice kinda silly. For example: 1" flat webbing will tear at 2500lbs, while a bartack with normal thread will tear at about 2000 pounds. Too bad that even 1800d ballistic nylon rips at less than 450 pounds...Most dogbones, slings and everything else are bartacked with polyester thread. Bartacks do help give a pack--or even your pants--strength, but they shouldn't be looked upon to be the answer to everything. My big pack -- which would fit the OP's size desire perfectly ;) -- has 144 bartacks on it. I bartack the hell out of it. All the same, when we did strength testing on the haul loops by factor two'ing the pack with 40kg in it on a static rope, the fabric blew out, not the bartack. (I doubt any person would want to experience what that pack took in punishment.)
'Waterproof' is another one. It makes me laugh so hard that i cry and reach for my beer. For example, I use a number of laminated fabrics in my packs which are rated as 200 PSI waterproof. Okay, a freaking rainstorm won't penetrate the fabric. But what about the stitching? Hello? On the other hand, seam welding -- as used in some extremely expensive new packs -- makes seams that for the most part are very hard. You can't compress those bags the same way. And, once water gets in, it ain't never getting out.
I personally believe that weight is ridiculous on most packs on the market. For example, my big WorkSacks are lighter than the WildThings' Andinista but include a framesheet, an Al stay, and all the things you need to carry a load without killing yourself. At the same time, i am terrified by the superlight packs because I'm kind of a klutz and I tear stuff. Why don't more manufacturers use 5 or 7 different fabrics to make their packs lighter and stronger?
I guess that personally I would cousel any would be pack buyer to consider three things after they figure out the size they want:
1) The shape of the pack. In this I mean does the pack have a small or large ass, is it wider than your shoulders, will it interfere with you in your predominant usage patterns. For example, Vortex makes packs with a big butt that are great for hiking in wide open forests in Southern Montana. Packs made by Dana Gleason tend to be more square, and the packs i make have the trimmest bottom I could make so they fit nicely in overgrown forests and tight quarters.
2) Access to the pack. Top loader or side loading? Its personal preference and some people like Maudite while others like Chimay.
3) Where you stand on the weight/comfort scale. I do still own my old, bozeman era, DD astralplane OK. It weighs almost 10 pounds, but when I'm carrying 110, I don't notice it that much. I have a rule of thumb that my pack should be about 12% of the load max. Heavy suspension systems really come into their own when you hit 65+ pounds. Why have a six pound pack when you have 24 pounds of gear? It makes no sense whatsoever to me, and its one thing (of many) that I think John Bouchard was way ahead of people on. My packs are fine with 65 pounds of gear in them for a one or two day approach or if you use them every day, but if you're taking a one week vacation from your desk, you haven't hiked a load in months and you're carrying that kinda load, by all means go buy a really expensive really heavy pack with lots and lots and lots of padding.
Once the would be pack buyer is clear on where they stand on these philosophic issues, I think you're in a position to intelligently winnow the field to a few contenders. And of course, i think mine are the best, even if my website is the worst! ;) Hey, i'm just trying to make the best product possible within the rubric of my philosophy.
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cliffwoman
Dec 6, 2005, 8:10 PM
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The Osprey is definately a good choice -- i have a ariel 75, a little bigger but similar, and mine's held up really well, and worked perfectly for everything from two weeks in the backcountry to a couple days climbing. great brand.
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bobruef
Dec 6, 2005, 8:24 PM
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just got an Osprey Exposure 50. I absolutely love it. Loaded with very nice features. Load that sucker up, and I forget how much weight I'm carrying once its adjusted right.
Would definately reccomend one.
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devonick
Dec 6, 2005, 8:24 PM
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In reply to: I think the best pack manufacturers in the world currently are myself, Mystery Ranch, Vortex, FairyDown, and a few people making custom bags.
im going to have to disagree here, fairy down are not one of teh best manufacturers of packs they are good for their sleeping bags but that is about it (as said by many retailers which is why you cant get fairydown packs form many places in new zealand)
i personally would go for a macpac such as the pursuit series or the ascent classic all are climbing packs and all are well made and have all the features you need for an alpine trip or a day at the crag
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crackers
Dec 6, 2005, 8:27 PM
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Devonick:
Honestly, all I've seen or used is the packs FairyDown told me that they are releasing next summer for you and this winter for us. They had really nice blends of materials and craftsmanship. Do you think that the prototypes I saw were atypical of the brand?
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