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kmsmoguls
Dec 7, 2005, 12:22 AM
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Hey everyone. I need to clean my dry core rope. I was planning on using a Beal Rope brush in the bathtub with a little woolite. Is that the best way? Also is there a product I should put on it after I wash it to retain the dry core properties? I am going to check with Sterling but I was wondering if anyone here had any suggestions. Thanks.
Erik
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devonick
Dec 7, 2005, 2:35 AM
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i would just chuck it in the bath with and run it through a rope cleaner that is the easiest way to do it, when i wash my gear after having it near salt water (sea cliffs) i just take it to the shower its so easy cos its kinda like killing 2 birds with one stone
but yea i would just do it in the bath with a rope cleaner and maybey a mild pure soap powder
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madrock
Dec 10, 2005, 1:04 AM
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Hey, don't sweat the whole dry core issue. Its a marketing scam. All cores for climbing ropes are produced with a white nylon fiber center. White nylon from Dupont or Allied comes standard to all rope manufacturers and other types of manufacturers with a lubricant finish so that it can pass easily through the machines to produce various products (the lubricant finish also acts like a kind of dry finish, although not a great one). A few crafty companies have decided to advertize this as some kind of super special feature that is only on their product. What you bought was a standard rope with a finish like any other. Wash it like any other rope, the brush and mild detergent will work just fine.
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jimdavis
Dec 10, 2005, 5:33 AM
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In reply to: A few crafty companies have decided to advertize this as some kind of super special feature that is only on their product. What you bought was a standard rope with a finish like any other.
Ever use both types in the winter? They are simply not the same. Half the time you can feel the difference with your hands.
You had to have made some enemies in the industry to say something like that...can't imagine how you'd have done that.....
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dwebster
Dec 12, 2005, 2:21 PM
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Madrock,
Yes it is true that nylon comes with a lubricant finish known as a spin finish but many rope manufacturers remove the finish because it does not make for a good climbing rope. Spin finishes are almost never left alone to go into climbing rope. Allied Signal/Honeywell offered a finish they called SeaGuard which is not the same as a spin finish. Dupont offered a similar finish but it was on nylon 6,6 which is not very good for climbing rope. These finishes are known as marine finishes and are not the same as the spin finish. Marine finishes are not standard, they are applied after the production of the nylon and are offered as an upgrade, for lack of a better term. Marine finishes technically were never meant to be water proof but rather an inhibitor of what is known as 'wet yarn on yarn abrasion'. Wet yarns damage each other while moving against each other as they do in a climbing rope. The various marine finishes are propritory formulas that bond with the nylon and will stay on the yarn when in water as opposed to the standard spin finish used to produce the nylon which will float off. Also, before a marine finish is applied the spin finish must be removed as it will prevent a good bond with the nylon. Nylon producers do not apply marine finishes during the actual production because it would goop up their millions of dollars worth of equipment.
The marine finishes are now hard to find since Honeywell no longer produces nylon of the type used for climbing rope. So now most manufacturers apply marine or water repelling finishes themselves. There is a big difference between marine finishes and water repellent finishes. As I said marine finishes aren't meant to be water proof or resistant while replellent finishes actually block out water, at least for a while. I'm sure everyone is familiar with shell clothing that eventually springs a leak. Another difference between marine finishes and water rellent type finishes is that the later must be heat cured. The heat curing makes a huge difference. Marine finishes are applied cold and are not cured. In either case the consumer wins.
I'm sure many of the rope manufacturers would take issue with you saying dry core is a 'scam' and calling them 'crafty'. I'm sure Five Ten, Sportiva, and the other big hitting shoe companies could say the same things about your marketing tactics.
So, to answer the original question: wash the rope in hot water with a mild soap but not Woolite. Woolite has fabric softeners which will.... well.... soften the nylon. It won't damage the nylon but obviously it's a bad idea to soften it. Also, hot water will not damage the nylon and will actually restore some of its elasticity.
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madrock
Dec 12, 2005, 7:01 PM
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The point remains the same, the core material being used by most manuafacturers has the same type of coating and finishes as those being used by companies claiming dry cores. In addition I worked on several ropes using type 6,6 and it worked fine for climbing ropes but was more expensive at the time, you just have to modify the construction. Seaguard is what Sterling was using when they started the "Dry Core" advertizing " Marine finishes technically were never meant to be water proof" It was good to use because of its cheap prices and availability. Are you saying it was a scam before but now its not??
Jim you are obviously a local to the factory and probably given free ropes, I am sure they apprciate your support, you can now consider the ropes paid for. Oh yea, quit stalking me.
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jimdavis
Dec 12, 2005, 11:01 PM
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In reply to: The point remains the same, the core material being used by most manuafacturers has the same type of coating and finishes as those being used by companies claiming dry cores. In addition I worked on several ropes using type 6,6 and it worked fine for climbing ropes but was more expensive at the time, you just have to modify the construction. Seaguard is what Sterling was using when they started the "Dry Core" advertizing " Marine finishes technically were never meant to be water proof" It was good to use because of its cheap prices and availability. Are you saying it was a scam before but now its not?? Jim you are obviously a local to the factory and probably given free ropes, I am sure they apprciate your support, you can now consider the ropes paid for. Oh yea, quit stalking me.
Actually I don't get free ropes, my last rope was a Buewater that I paid retail for, and posting to prove your posts wrong isn't stalking you, it's making you look like an idiot, something you seem to be doing quite well on your own anyway.
Jim
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tradklime
Dec 12, 2005, 11:43 PM
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In reply to: Woolite has fabric softeners which will.... well.... soften the nylon. It won't damage the nylon but obviously it's a bad idea to soften it. |
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tradklime
Dec 12, 2005, 11:48 PM
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In reply to: ...and posting to prove your posts wrong isn't stalking you, it's making you look like an idiot, something you seem to be doing quite well on your own anyway. Jim
Jim, I certainly don't have a desire to get in the middle of your quarrel with madrock, but I thought I would mention this anyway... From an outside perspective, I'm not sure that you are having the effect you desire. Pointing out an error or contrary opinion is one thing, but you're taking it a bit far and undermining your own credibility.
Just in case you care.
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dwebster
Dec 13, 2005, 12:20 AM
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In reply to: The point remains the same, the core material being used by most manuafacturers has the same type of coating and finishes as those being used by companies claiming dry cores. In addition I worked on several ropes using type 6,6 and it worked fine for climbing ropes but was more expensive at the time, you just have to modify the construction. Seaguard is what Sterling was using when they started the "Dry Core" advertizing " Marine finishes technically were never meant to be water proof" It was good to use because of its cheap prices and availability. Are you saying it was a scam before but now its not?? Jim you are obviously a local to the factory and probably given free ropes, I am sure they apprciate your support, you can now consider the ropes paid for. Oh yea, quit stalking me.
How can you possibly claim the point remains the same? Did you actually read my post or did you just see that someone disagreed with you and therefore retaliated? Never mind. SeaGuard is gone. Honeywell's high tenacity nylon production is gone. Virtually all manufacturers are buying nylon from the same place. All the rope manufacturers are treating the nylon with their own formulas of lubricant and or water repellent.
A scam would be to not treat the nylon and claim that it is or to not have the nylon producer treat the yarn and claim that it is. Quite simply the nylon is treated by the nylon factory or the rope factory, either way it is treated with something beyond the spin finish. It strikes me as a bit unprofessional for someone in the climbing industry to go on a public forum and make unfounded accusations about other climbing companies.
Name one rope being made today that is made with nylon 6,6 in the core. Your claim to have 'worked' on a rope sounds a bit dodgy and in fact I doubt it. I'd be willing to believe you chose the colors for the sheath but that's about it.
As for Jim 'stalking' you, aside from you sounding a bit paranoid, I imagine he is just trying to offset your posts which seem to come from the ministry of misinformation.
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jimdavis
Dec 13, 2005, 4:06 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: ...and posting to prove your posts wrong isn't stalking you, it's making you look like an idiot, something you seem to be doing quite well on your own anyway. Jim Jim, I certainly don't have a desire to get in the middle of your quarrel with madrock, but I thought I would mention this anyway... From an outside perspective, I'm not sure that you are having the effect you desire. Pointing out an error or contrary opinion is one thing, but you're taking it a bit far and undermining your own credibility. Just in case you care.
Point taken.
I think it should be noted that this isn't the first time we've heard stuff that's just slander and completly offbase from the user I call into question. Should a company rep, bad-talk other companies publicly on something they're wrong on though? That's why I posted what I did. I'll try and remain more professional in my future posts.
Thanks,
Jim
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dwebster
Dec 13, 2005, 1:26 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Woolite has fabric softeners which will.... well.... soften the nylon. It won't damage the nylon but obviously it's a bad idea to soften it. dwebster, would you mind expanding upon this. I guess I don't really understand how fabric softeners work. I always figured they were some sort of coating that quickly wore off, with little real effect.
I did a little more checking and perhaps I should retract my Woolite statement. You're right it does put on a coating. Most high tech garment producers warn against using fabric softeners for this very reason. The coating will clog up the micro pores that allow moisture to escape which is not really an issue with rope and in fact may have a benefit. The only problem I can see is that the coating that some fabric softeners put on could possibly harm any dry or other treatment that may be on the rope already. The same could be said for soaps and detergents I suppose. In this event I think you'll find you have to wash the rope more often to maintain a supple hand.
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panicfan
Dec 13, 2005, 3:04 PM
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Can someone please give me an example of a mild soap to use.
Just dont want to mess up my rope.
Thanks.
Peace,
PanicFan
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jimdavis
Dec 13, 2005, 4:04 PM
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Nikwax Tech Wash is the recommended one, I think. Sterling also makes a little rope wash packed that you just mix into water.
Just give the company a call, they're used to answering these questions. I think the Sterling site has an FAQ about this kinda of stuff, I think a lot of the other companies do too.
Cheers,
Jim
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jt512
Dec 13, 2005, 4:26 PM
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In reply to: Hey, don't sweat the whole dry core issue. Its a marketing scam. All cores for climbing ropes are produced with a white nylon fiber center. White nylon from Dupont or Allied comes standard to all rope manufacturers and other types of manufacturers with a lubricant finish so that it can pass easily through the machines to produce various products (the lubricant finish also acts like a kind of dry finish, although not a great one). A few crafty companies have decided to advertize this as some kind of super special feature that is only on their product. What you bought was a standard rope with a finish like any other.
I don't believe this.
All Beal ropes have dry-treated sheaths. In addition, some have dry-treated cores, which they charge more for. I do not believe for a second that these ropes are identical to their non-dry core ropes, and they are just arbitrarily charging more for them.
Jay
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pastprime
Dec 13, 2005, 6:20 PM
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First post. I feel kind of like the man in Ireland who walked into a pub in the midst of a huge brawl and asked, "Is this a private fight, or can anyone join in?"
Having a Beal dry core myself, I called Black Diamond, the Beal distributor, and they said to use Nikwax, Woolite, or Ivory Flakes.
As with most materials, rinsing thoroughly would be a good thing.
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madrock
Dec 13, 2005, 8:22 PM
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The fact that the Dry Core thing was started a marketing stunt was explained to me clearly by owner of Steriling Rope who is now no longer in the climbing industry. You don't have to like it. Believe what you want. It will cause no problem with washing the rope, and adds little or no formance to the ropes. I am sure some companies are making dry ropes with dry cores.
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jt512
Dec 13, 2005, 9:05 PM
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In reply to: The fact that the Dry Core thing was started a marketing stunt was explained to me clearly by owner of Steriling Rope who is now no longer in the climbing industry. You don't have to like it. Believe what you want.
OK, it is plausible that it may have started out as a marketing gimick by a single manufacturer; however, that in no way implies that every (or any) company that separately markets dry-core and non-dry core ropes is employing a marketing stunt. Indeed, claiming that two identical ropes were materially different, and charging a higher price for the supposedly better rope, would be an outright fraudulent act, which I do not believe would be employed by a reputable manufacturer, such as Beal.
Jay
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dwebster
Dec 13, 2005, 9:34 PM
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In reply to: The fact that the Dry Core thing was started a marketing stunt was explained to me clearly by owner of Steriling Rope who is now no longer in the climbing industry. You don't have to like it. Believe what you want. It will cause no problem with washing the rope, and adds little or no formance to the ropes.
I don't understand. You mean to tell us Sterling is no longer making climbing rope? Why would the owner tell you something like that?
Also I think there is a difference between a marketing 'stunt' and a marketing campaign. A small difference I suppose but it appears you are intentionally trying to be inflammatory.
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madrock
Dec 13, 2005, 10:23 PM
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No, the company has changed ownership.
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letolives
Dec 13, 2005, 10:23 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Hey, don't sweat the whole dry core issue. Its a marketing scam. All cores for climbing ropes are produced with a white nylon fiber center. White nylon from Dupont or Allied comes standard to all rope manufacturers and other types of manufacturers with a lubricant finish so that it can pass easily through the machines to produce various products (the lubricant finish also acts like a kind of dry finish, although not a great one). A few crafty companies have decided to advertize this as some kind of super special feature that is only on their product. What you bought was a standard rope with a finish like any other. I don't believe this. All Beal ropes have dry-treated sheaths. In addition, some have dry-treated cores, which they charge more for. I do not believe for a second that these ropes are identical to their non-dry core ropes, and they are just arbitrarily charging more for them. Jay
You would be naive to take your own advice. Companies engage in price discrimination all the time and usually accompany them with clever marketing strategies. Sorry Sucker!
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jt512
Dec 13, 2005, 10:34 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Hey, don't sweat the whole dry core issue. Its a marketing scam. All cores for climbing ropes are produced with a white nylon fiber center. White nylon from Dupont or Allied comes standard to all rope manufacturers and other types of manufacturers with a lubricant finish so that it can pass easily through the machines to produce various products (the lubricant finish also acts like a kind of dry finish, although not a great one). A few crafty companies have decided to advertize this as some kind of super special feature that is only on their product. What you bought was a standard rope with a finish like any other. I don't believe this. All Beal ropes have dry-treated sheaths. In addition, some have dry-treated cores, which they charge more for. I do not believe for a second that these ropes are identical to their non-dry core ropes, and they are just arbitrarily charging more for them. Jay You would be naive to take your own advice. Companies engage in price discrimination all the time and usually accompany them with clever marketing strategies. Sorry Sucker!
You're right. Dry treatment of ropes is just a myth. What could we have been thinking for all these years!
Are climbers who don't have internet connections this stupid? Surely, this cannot be a representative cross-section of climbers.
Jay
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dwebster
Dec 13, 2005, 10:49 PM
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In reply to: No, the company has changed ownership.
Again I ask you why the owner, new or old, would tell you something like that?
If what you say is true, which I'm having some doubts, and all rope companies are using the same product in the core then I'd say the 'crafty' company has a better marketing department. I'm not saying I like clever or crafty marketing but I'm not going to condemn a company for it.
Also, please answer my question about the nylon 6,6 core rope, the one you "worked on". I want to know which one not to buy so I don't die.
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madrock
Dec 13, 2005, 10:57 PM
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No one is asking supid questions. The issue was Sterlings DryCore. If you think its a dry treatment follow this link to their site where they will set you straight. According to Sterling it helps with abrasion much like a standard lubrican finish might do. According to them it is not a dry treatment.
http://www.sterlingrope.com/2005/faq.asp#h3_4
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stymingersfink
Dec 13, 2005, 10:59 PM
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In reply to: Hey, don't sweat the whole dry core issue. Its a marketing scam. All cores for climbing ropes are produced with a white nylon fiber center. White nylon from Dupont or Allied comes standard to all rope manufacturers and other types of manufacturers with a lubricant finish so that it can pass easily through the machines to produce various products (the lubricant finish also acts like a kind of dry finish, although not a great one). A few crafty companies have decided to advertize this as some kind of super special feature that is only on their product. What you bought was a standard rope with a finish like any other. Wash it like any other rope, the brush and mind detergent will work just fine.
*some* people just don't know ^^Sh!t^^ from Shinola.
All rubber is just the same, too. Some just tends to have better friction properties and wear longer, but then *some* wouldn't know about that EITHER!
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