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drunkenmonkey
Aug 10, 2002, 4:57 PM
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Guys/Gals
whats a good selection of hooks for a trio of big wall hopefuls. at the moment we have a pair of talons, grappling hooks, and cliffhangers, all from BD. do we need anything bigger than the grappling for something like Zodiac. i notice that pika and Fish both make somefairly big hooks?
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wildtrail
Aug 10, 2002, 5:07 PM
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Fifi Hook. Definitely a useful piece. I don't big wall, but I do aid a little and I have found the Fifi invaluable.
Also, depending on what you are doing, heads may be useful to.
I'd PM passthepitonspete. He does a lot of aid walls and would be able to answer this better than I can for sure, but you have my two little cents!
http://www.fishproducts.com
Steve
[ This Message was edited by: wildtrail on 2002-08-10 10:07 ]
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bigwalling
Aug 10, 2002, 5:43 PM
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Make some pointed cliff hangers. I like them more than the regulars. Also I really like the two leeper logan hooks. The fish hooks are awesome and you get comments on them from people who have never seen them. Don't forget to get cam hooks. They can make life alot easier.
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passthepitonspete
Aug 10, 2002, 5:50 PM
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You can add to your list:
One Fish Hook
One Captain Hook
Two Cam Hooks
and you are all set for Zodiac.
For harder routes, I would change the list to read:
3 Talons
3 Grappling Hooks (2 of which are pointed)
3 Chouinard Sky Hooks (2 of which are pointed)
3 cam hooks
2 Fish Hooks
2 Captain Hooks
A few more wouldn't hurt
Duct tape and screamers for pro
Solo the hardest hooking pitches, so you can hold down your protection hooks with prusik loops on your [stationary] lead rope
By "pointed", I mean that you file the hook to a quarter-inch-wide flat "point". File gently, and don't heat the hook or you can damage the metal's temper.
It doesn't hurt to practise your hooking ahead of time, either.
Go to your favourite crag, and practise hook traverses a few feet above the ground.
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drewcoleman
Aug 10, 2002, 7:30 PM
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I'd listen to Dr.P. He's the MAN!
Drew
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mrhardgrit
Aug 12, 2002, 3:49 AM
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Hi Drunkenmonkey,
I think I may have met you at Millstone?? You were practising some aid stuff round by Dexterity and I was soloing the Cioch just to the right...
Anyway... practice traversing with hooks is the way to go - especially seeing as traversing with hooks is harder than going straight up (exceptions given...) and thus you won't be quite so scared of those rocking cliffhangers next time you've got a couple of thou' beneath you!
Although Pete said to practice on your local crag - I'd suggest grit won't stand up to it and the boulders on the Peak Limestone might get slightly irate, when your new sharp skyhook starts to bite on their favourite crimp! (This all presumes you are in fact the guy I saw in the Peaks!)
Tom
PS. One other thing - when doing it a couple of feet off the ground, make sure you keep your legs just that little bit bent, as I know of a guy who fell around a foot with a completely straight leg (which may happen if you're not expecting the hook to pop) and put his thigh bone through his pelvis - VERY nasty!
[ This Message was edited by: mrhardgrit on 2002-08-31 16:02 ]
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rmiller
Aug 12, 2002, 4:01 AM
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You will only need two each of the BD hooks and one Fish hook (or comparable other brands) for most routes. On the harder stuff, you may need some modified hooks or extra if you are planning on leaving them for pro. But don't worry about that for awhile.
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freeclmr
Aug 12, 2002, 5:47 AM
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This forum section is awesome! I have been using hooks on my solo ascents and, short of duct-taping them to the wall, accepted that they were doomed to be removed as I leap-frogged placements or just fall off as I move above them.
The statement to hold the hooks in place with a prusik on a solo lead just sent off a HUGE lightbulb in my brain (and also made me kick myself for not realizing this before )
Thanks, Pete (and everyone else) for all of the awesome advise you give on this site!
Brian
[ This Message was edited by: freeclmr on 2002-08-11 22:47 ]
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passthepitonspete
Aug 12, 2002, 2:31 PM
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Invention was born of necessity!
I figured out this little trick on my solo ascent of Zed-Em when I ran out of duct tape!
Can you freaking believe it?!
What would Red Green have said?!
Sheesh.
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roscoclimber
Aug 14, 2002, 6:40 PM
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Three more quick questions regarding hooks. Although I've never placed one yet, I keep reading that I need to add cam hooks to my quiver of tools.
Question 1: Which size is most commonly used. The Pika catalog lists 4 sizes: mini, small, large, and bent. Should I buy one of each; or is there a common size that suits most occasions.
Question 2: Since when is "bent" the next size above "large".
Why does the largest size need a "bend" that the others don't.
Question 3: Being a bit "green" to the world of aid, and since I've never placed a cam hook; I'm not even sure how to place one. I read a trip report (Lunar Ecstacy? in Zion) and how a cam hook was the only thing that would stick in a certain pin scar. Just looking at them, I can't see how these would stick in a pin scar. Did the author of the trip report mis-identify the type of hook he used in said pin scar? Perhaps he used a Pika Ibis or a Fish hook???? Anyway, what rock features are cam hooks typically used on?
Thanks in advance.
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fishypete
Aug 15, 2002, 7:48 AM
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I dont know nufin' 'bout bent cam hooks, but normal ones can definitely be the thing in pin scars!
Peraps a pic will help:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos.php?Action=ListPhoto&PhotoID=3303
(although it aint a pin scar of course!)
Cheers
Fishy.
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spike
Aug 15, 2002, 2:15 PM
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Hi Roscoclimber,
If you are going to get cam hooks --- purchase LEEPER CAM HOOKS --- they are the
best cam hooks available !!!
PIKA does make nice Ibis hooks.
Richard / SPIKE
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danl
Aug 15, 2002, 2:52 PM
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One thing I learned quickly with hook placements...don't lean back and don't look at them.
I passed this advice on once to some one just getting into aiding. We went to a little pile near me. He placed the hook stood up and leaned back to take a look at it and it popped him right between the eyes.
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twrock
Aug 15, 2002, 3:40 PM
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Ouch
At least it wasn't "in" the eye!
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mountainmonkey
Aug 15, 2002, 3:48 PM
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Which sizes of Leeper cam hooks are most commonly used on trade routes? Small, narrow, wide, fragile flake ?
thanks
casey
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radistrad
Aug 15, 2002, 3:58 PM
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My partner just got off of Zodiac.
Indespensible were the Hybrid Ailens, HB offset nuts and the cam hooks.
Dont for get you rivit hangers either
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hollyclimber
Aug 15, 2002, 4:38 PM
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I bought some of the pika hooks to check them out. I didn't like them at all...
Not that I am throwing them in the garbage, but the bent thing was wierd. To be honest I can't remember exactly what I didn't like, but when I used it, I was "bye bye, sticking with the leeper cam hooks".
Cam hooks can help a lot in pin scars at Zion and make a C1+ or C2 section into jus' plain C1.
hgb
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twrock
Aug 26, 2002, 10:00 AM
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And practicing with those hooks before you get up on the big stone is a really good idea.
My first cam hook placement was on pitch 2 of the Prow (notice, no prior practice). It looked and felt pretty good. I got up on it. 30 feet later when I came to a stop (below the anchor), I decided that I had probably done something wrong. Now what I had done right was to have a backup knot tied to my harness so that when the Grigri I was soloing with didn't catch, I didn't end up as some gooey pile at the base of Washington Column. (I obviously had done a few other things wrong as well.)
So a practice session or two wouldn't be a bad idea.
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passthepitonspete
Aug 26, 2002, 5:42 PM
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When it comes to hooks,
"practise practise practise!"
The other thing which deserves repeating, and which is so well illustrated in Ron's post above, is:
"When rope soloing, ALWAYS tie a backup knot!"
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