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ricardol
Dec 27, 2005, 6:21 PM
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.. i'm going to put something out there, just for kicks ..
.. my current big-wall aid target is to get to the point where i could do el cap in a push .. here is my current way of thinking that i'll get to that point ..
1 - practice all 2006 doing grade V's in a push .. (the prow, south face of WC, west face of LT, 10 days after, skullqueen) .. my goal is to do 4 of these in 2006
2 - increase my stamina in 2006 by working out -- and keep on working out during the winter of 2006.
3 - find a good "in-a-push" partner ..
4 - free 5.9 -- and short 5.10a cruxes.
5 - go for tangerine trip in a push in 2007 ..
my guess is that to do el cap in a push i should be able to climb about 30 hours in a row .. in 2005 me and chris white did 15 hours on wet denim day dream, and we were pretty whooped when we topped out .. so i've got a long ways to go.\
unfortunately i can't quit my job and move to the valley .. (which would definately help me reach this goal) .. so i've gotta fit this goal in with a regular full-time job in silicon valley.
---------------
so thats the plan .. alot of detail has been left out -- for those of you who are into the "in a push" game on big walls .. any hints, tips, or offers to rope up?
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mistymountainhop
Dec 27, 2005, 6:35 PM
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ricardol- im training for the NIAD or Salathe in a push next summer and i do not have a partner yet. there is a good chance i will be living there again. hit me up to set something up.
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alikb
Dec 28, 2005, 12:07 AM
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Dude, fuck the training! You already know what your doing. I'd say, just go for lurking fear next chance you get. It's definitely the easiest "IAD" route on the captain unless you climb 5.11 (in which case the nose would go quicker). In fact it's probably easier to do IAD than some of the "practice" routes you mentioned. A friend of mine did lurking fear this summer as his first wall, and it took him 22 hours. Did I mention that it's also a killer route?
You said: "my guess is that to do el cap in a push i should be able to climb about 30 hours in a row"
No matter how fit you are, after about 18-20 hours you will crash, and everything will start to take a lot longer. Basically, if you plan to take more than 18 hours, expect to suffer.
One really important trick that might not seem very logical at first, is to haul. Bring lots of food and water, and you'll still be able to leg haul no sweat. Way easier than than jugging steep rock with a heavy pack.
For longer pushes (more than 24h), the three man team is best. It allows one guy to sleep while the other two climb/belay. A hammock is nice for this, or, if you really want to travel in style, you can flag a ledge.
Let me know if you want any more advice. I'll probably be in the valley next fall, and I'm always up for el cap pushes. Find me at the bridge, the base or the loft.
Good luck!
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flamer
Dec 28, 2005, 12:13 AM
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Ricardo,
Push style is where it's at!!!
My "speed" tips.......
Light is right- only use 2 aiders, no hauling, no "wall" harness(just use a normal free climbing job), gatorade instead of water- then carry less.
Carry a small rack and plan to back clean and leap frog, RUN IT OUT!!
FREE CLIMB!! Get out of your aiders as much as possible....being very solid at 5.10 trad(or harder!) is key.
Short fix....routes like TT have bomber bolted anchors take advantage!
YARD!!! On fixed gear, french free, avoid your aiders as much as possible, but know when to use them.
Jug FAST!!!
Don't jack around getting everything "perfect" at every belay...locker- locker- clove- clove, LINE IS FIXED!!!! GO!!!
All of the routes you mention are great push routes..and warm ups for bigger stuff....try doing 2 of them in a push- south face and the prow????
Look the topo's over carefully...look for areas to speed things up..simul aid? For example the first 4 pitch's of a route like WFLT can be easily and safely simul climbed....the second is on bolts during all of the simul(except 1 spot but a long runner or daisy can fix that)...plus there is always a bomber anchor inbetween you and it's steep!! Think about that kind of stuff.
Don't wait until 2007....try hard spring and summer then fire in the fall.
HAVE FUN!!!
josh
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areyoumydude
Dec 28, 2005, 1:46 AM
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Sweet. Good luck dude.
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mikeehartley
Dec 28, 2005, 2:16 AM
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Ricardol,
If you can get your hands on a copy, you might find Climbing mag #203 from May 2001 to be of interest. Chris Mac put a lot of speed info in it along with topos with split times at certain belays to measure your progress and to compare various Valley Grade V's and VI's.
Good luck!
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holdplease2
Dec 28, 2005, 2:25 AM
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Sounds like good times, Ricardo...NOT! ;) More power to you, friend.
FWIW - If you fix pitches, I don't think you can claim you did it in a push...not that saying you did it is important, just food for thought. Example: I could fix six pitches of Zodiac, climb 10 in 18 hours and call it a push. I'd be lying.
If I fix and fire a zion or short yos route, I certainly don't claim I did it in a "push", I fixed and fired, right?
Correct me if I'm wrong. If I am wrong, I look forward to claiming some solo push ascents, which would make me feel, like, superrad.
-Kate.
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holdplease2
Dec 28, 2005, 2:30 AM
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And Ricardo, on routes like Lurking Fear, Zodiac, and the Trip, most of the gear is so bomber that you could just probably walk three daisies on most pitches, or a small loop of line on gear, climbing straight up, keeping two pieces in at all times.
You would not need a rope. This has been done on Zod, and probably some other routes. I;ve experimented with this and it is, like, wicked fast when the gear is good.
To move food and water, you could tag a bag from anchor to anchor easily, lifting it from a freight hook. Or just go with what you could carry.
For the free climbing sections, or harder aid sections, use a very thin line that you wouldn't dream of falling on. This would be the same line that you were tagging your pig with, probably half of a set of double ropes, belaying with a clove as a gri gri would not catch. Or use a Silent Partner.
-Kate.
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iamthewallress
Dec 28, 2005, 4:00 AM
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In reply to: And Ricardo, on routes like Lurking Fear, Zodiac, and the Trip, most of the gear is so bomber that you could just probably walk three daisies on most pitches, or a small loop of line on gear, climbing straight up, keeping two pieces in at all times.
You could also unrope for all of the pitches or parts thereof that go free below 10a, but most people would find enough risk in running it out and/or simulclimbing, if even that.
There are plenty of places on the two routes for which I have first hand knowledge where taking static falls on a unequalized C2-C3 gear with no other back up would have a good chance of sending you to the deck or at least rupturing your guts. IMO, that's a big part of the reason that Russ got ink and is still remembered for climbing the Zodiac ropeless.
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piton
Dec 28, 2005, 5:05 PM
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there is a difference between short fixing and fix ropes. just like rivets drilled straight in and rivets drilled on a angle!
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holdplease2
Dec 28, 2005, 5:11 PM
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Oh gosh, I know that. I misread flamer's post.
Thanks, Piton.
-Kate.
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elvislegs
Dec 28, 2005, 5:28 PM
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having goals and a plan is a kick ass way to live. props for that. and GO GIT SOME SON!11
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lambone
Dec 28, 2005, 8:57 PM
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I think the T-Trip would be a didfficult route in-a-push, just because of the steepness. Compared to somethink like Lurking Fear or the Nose, I can see the Trip or anything on the rightside being much more physically demanding.
I noticed a huge difference doing routes like the WFLT vs. Skull Queen in regards to how tired and sore I was at the end.
Plus you can link a bunch of pitches on the Fear with a 70m rope, which would help if not short fixing.
Cheers, email me if you need a partner!
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sspssp
Dec 28, 2005, 9:21 PM
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If you are aiming for a NIAD, I would say it is worth heading up the Nose as part of your practice. I'm not clear if this is your intended day route or if you have been up the Nose. It is easy to bail off the Nose and, in general, it is easier to come down the Nose without getting in the way of other parties.
So if you catch a day when there aren't too many parties hauling low on the route, head up with a light rack and see how high you can get. Good training and it will let you get at least part of the route wired for the real thing.
If you are just interested in getting up the Nose without hauling a lot of bivy stuff, take a bit more food and water and cat nap on one of the ledges. In summer during a high pressure spell, the nights are pretty mild. If you are climbing later in the year, you can catnap during the day and climb at night (to keep warm).
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ammon
Dec 28, 2005, 9:45 PM
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Hey Ricardo,
Climbing El Cap in a push is totally doable for you.
The one thing I would try and simplify is your jugging technique. No offence bro, but if I jugged El Cap in a push using a Gri-gri to rest on every move.... my shoulder would probably splinter into pieces. Seriously.
Also, it really complicates cleaning pieces fast when you're not using two ascenders. You can NOT pass the piece as fast.
You've come a LONG way in a short period of time and I'm really impressed with your accomplishments. But, that is one thing I noticed that would greatly improve your efficiency while cleaning.
Josh (Flamer), how are you bro? I used to fix the lines exactly how you described: Locker, locker. Clove-clove. Go!!
But, I started seeing some SERIOUS flaws in this system. The big one is that the cloves kept riding up on the spine of the biners. Hey, I've broke biners with body weight that have been cross-loaded... so, maybe that's why it started to seem a bit sketchy.
I've switched to a new method that a few of us fine tuned in the Valley.
Locker, locker. Double-figure-eight. Take a bite of the rope you're going to rope-solo on, with some slack in the rope clove a screamer to one of the bolts (or if there is a third). Make sure you don't clove it so high that your partner can't reach it.
This way if you fall you're falling on the screamer. Not a cross-loaded clove hitch.
When you get it down it's only a few seconds slower than the clove-clove method.
Cheers, Ammon
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lambone
Dec 29, 2005, 3:35 AM
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I agree with ammon RE the anchor w/screamer.
There is also a cool way to tie the figure 8 so you have two equalized "rabbit ear" loops to clip into each locker. One knot, two loops, two lockers. I couldn't really begin to describe how to tie it online, but it is easy once you've done it once or twice. Basically makes a cordellete out of the rope.
cheers
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flamer
Dec 29, 2005, 4:33 AM
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In reply to: Josh (Flamer), how are you bro? I used to fix the lines exactly how you described: Locker, locker. Clove-clove. Go!!
I'm good dude!!! How are you????
Hey I need a partner for a serious link-up in Red rocks......I've got 3 people in mind and you're one of them.
I'm pretty sure you're refering to the knot that was further discussed in this thread.....the super/double/rabbit ears figure eight.
That is a great knot and I'd agree that it makes perfect sense to use for short fixing. It doesn't take any longer than 2 cloves and won't cross load like cloves can....thus you have a system that is just as fast and more safe...you gotta watch that Ammon he's a thinker!!! Adding a screamer to the system makes it even better....
josh
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flamer
Dec 29, 2005, 4:35 AM
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In reply to: I misread flamer's post.
You wanna wrestle, don't you?
josh
ps....zion this winter????
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piton
Dec 29, 2005, 2:26 PM
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ammon,
if you're talking about the biner cross loading w/ the clove the biner is directly attached the anchor. i think if you use one of quick draws w/ the rubber fastner at the end where the biner can't flop around it should slove the problem of cross loading with a clove.
also i agree always screemer as aback up.
have a happy new year!
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alpinestylist
Dec 29, 2005, 7:21 PM
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Josh, Im in linkup shape...just got back from RR too
Holla at your boy,
Brent
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flamer
Dec 29, 2005, 11:17 PM
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In reply to: Josh, Im in linkup shape...just got back from RR too Holla at your boy, Brent
Scratch That 3 people thing.....make it 4.
I'll PM....it's a beauty.
josh
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holdplease2
Dec 30, 2005, 12:06 AM
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Name the time, name the climb, Josh. I always look forward to climbing with you. Feb/March look good. January is all work no play.
-Kate.
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ricardol
Dec 30, 2005, 1:10 AM
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wow! --
thanks for all the input .. and the ideas to just go for it ..
.. a few folks have even PM'd me offering to rope up .. so this is going to be one heck of a fun season .. -- i like to idea of also going for el cap in a push in 2006 -- (lurking fear) .. so we'll see ..
.. i think some practice jugging with 2 jumars is in order -- ammon had the pleasure of watching me struggle on the steepest part of south seas while cleaning with a grigri -- grigri's suck for cleaning on stuff that is overhung!
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climbhigher
Jan 2, 2006, 8:38 AM
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DUDE!!!
Ricardo,
I have learned so much from Ammon and Brain McCray and even Pass the Piton's Pete even thou i hate to admit it. heheHEHE. Just by reading there trip reports and already knowing the basics VERY WELL. Ammon is so right. How did you get so good sooo fast? Took me way longer.
You should start running. Seriously, That's what i am doinng right now. Gravity will like you better. But take it really slow at first, otherwise you will get hurt. 1/2 mile a day for one month is not to little. Before you know it you will be flying with the wind.
Two more things. The person on lead is Capitan of The Ship, always. No, You are not always capitan of the ship like when you are Soloing.
Last thing. You got a In a Push Partner already.
Cheers.
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