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curt
Dec 28, 2005, 12:28 AM
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In reply to: Did anyone else see that BVB was able to get away with posting the words fucking dipshits spelled out in full, with no *, in bold, twice, and everyone who quoted that paragraph had their posts appended to just s--- with the dashes? Wtf? BVB got skill!
Voila 8^)
Curt
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saxfiend
Dec 28, 2005, 4:20 AM
Post #127 of 265
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In reply to: In reply to: One more funny: Watched a fellow make the first clip of a gym route while standing on the floor, by swinging a loop of rope at the biner until it popped in place; took about three tries. Others have likely seen this too but it was a first for me. Nothing at all wrong with doing that, assuming you get the rope running through the 'biner in the correct direction. It's a good technique for sport climbing when you want the first 'draw pre-clipped but don't have a stick-clip.
JL
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kman
Dec 28, 2005, 4:28 AM
Post #128 of 265
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The draw was already up there because the dude said it was a gym route.
In reply to: Just out of curiosity . . . if you don't have a stick clip, how did the draw (the one you're swinging your rope loop at) get up there? |
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sliamese
Dec 28, 2005, 4:43 AM
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i know when me and my friends go sport climbing the leader leaves the draws on for the next person to climb. this means only the last person has to clean the route and everyone else can just climb. so in that case it is a very handy skill to have! its fun to try and flick the rope in the first clip tho! i still can only do it on overhanging routes where the draw hangs away from the wall!
onto back-clipping (again) an older couple at my local gym were leading, thinking they knew their s***. anyway the lady went up, back-clipped the first 4 draws. i politely asked if they knew this was bad only to get an irrate response that he knows what hes doing etc. i just let the gym staff talk to him!
that was the same guy that only clipped the last 3 bolts on a three-storey gym route(with quickdraws every 1.5m), needless to say he got a new a-hole torn!!!
Cheers big ears!! :lol:
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curt
Dec 28, 2005, 4:46 AM
Post #130 of 265
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I do agree that lead climbing with one locking biner tie in is a mistake that shouldn't be repeated. karlbaba, i know you been around the block, but a single-rope tie-in to a single locking 'bean is precisely what bridwell, westbay and long used on the nose in '75. hey BVB...what kind of an irresponsible asshole would advocate safety proceedures used 30 years ago.... you sound like an absolute tard to me... you would probably make it out alight in a fall but why would you say it is "fine" and just becasue you dropped the name of climbing heros of the past and how they did it, does not mean that anyone today who wants to have a long life of climbing and experiences should use those types of safety precautions. Climbing is dangerous enough as it is. Why do less then you need to on a single pitch sport route.??? And it was a beginner !!!!!!! IDIOT....
Shut up and die. Immediately. You fucking retarded n00b.
Curt
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happiegrrrl
Dec 28, 2005, 5:11 AM
Post #131 of 265
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In reply to: In reply to: Did anyone else see that BVB was able to get away with posting the words f---ing s--- spelled out in full, with no *, in bold, twice, and everyone who quoted that paragraph had their posts appended to just s--- with the dashes? Wtf? BVB got skill! Voila 8^) Curt
Hey! HowdeDOdat?
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curt
Dec 28, 2005, 5:15 AM
Post #132 of 265
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Did anyone else see that BVB was able to get away with posting the words fucking dipshits spelled out in full, with no *, in bold, twice, and everyone who quoted that paragraph had their posts appended to just s--- with the dashes? Wtf? BVB got skill! Voila 8^) Curt Hey! HowdeDOdat?
It's magic. Haha.
Curt
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ajkclay
Dec 28, 2005, 6:49 AM
Post #133 of 265
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JT yeah, that's the way I was thinking too, I think I remember you commenting about the level of alarm vs the reality of the dangers of backclipping accidents in another thread along similar lines, could be wrong though :)
roseraie yes, I am well aware of the ability to demonstrate how to unclip a simulated backclip with your hands, however, as you acknowledge, you need to hold the top biner firmly, something which does not normally occur on either bolted nor trad routes, and even with the demo condition it does not occur often. As I said, in real conditions with a quickdraw clipped in all different orientations and positions against real rock (even jammed against something to prevent it from moving) the rope never unclipped... Not once.
cracklover and bill7 Yeah, cool weird stuff!
Cheers
Adam
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dirtineye
Dec 28, 2005, 7:17 AM
Post #134 of 265
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In reply to: i thought it was now common knowledge that a trying 2 ropes together with a figure eight is not safe .. (with tails on the same side) .. .. use the EDK .. its safe and works .. the figure eight will roll .. In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: What I see is that BVB thinks that since some guys did stuff that is questionable and lived, that makes it OK. you nailed it. "questionable" is my middle name...... :wink: p.s. what is this "figure 8" device of which you speak? I meant the figure 8 knot, tied with tails on teh same side, liek an EDK. People used to use it to join ropes, but it sucks. Questionable really is the key. Questionable works most of the time, of there wouldn't be a question. With my luck though, almost every time I do something questionable, The answer to the question is, "OOPS!".
Yeah, well, it's also common knowledge that you should tie in, right?
My point was that peopel USED to think that 8 and the normal bowline , along with biner chains and other dubious practices were OK for climbing, but these days we (um, most of us) know they are not.
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moose_droppings
Dec 28, 2005, 7:44 AM
Post #135 of 265
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In reply to: i know when me and my friends go sport climbing the leader leaves the draws on for the next person to climb. this means only the last person has to clean the route and everyone else can just climb. so in that case it is a very handy skill to have! its fun to try and flick the rope in the first clip tho!
WTF?
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roseraie
Dec 28, 2005, 9:11 AM
Post #136 of 265
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In reply to: yes, I am well aware of the ability to demonstrate how to unclip a simulated backclip with your hands, however, as you acknowledge, you need to hold the top biner firmly, something which does not normally occur on either bolted nor trad routes, and even with the demo condition it does not occur often. As I said, in real conditions with a quickdraw clipped in all different orientations and positions against real rock (even jammed against something to prevent it from moving) the rope never unclipped... Not once.
The first time it was demonstrated to me was on real rock, clipped to a bolt... the rope ripped right out on a simulated fall, complete with a simulated not-very-dynamic belay. And I've seen it happen since, not in a simulation. I'm not saying it will always happen. But it can, if the fall is right. That's enough of a risk for me to say that backclipping is a rather large deal.
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solo
Dec 28, 2005, 10:14 AM
Post #137 of 265
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In reply to: Just out of curiosity . . . if you don't have a stick clip, how did the draw (the one you're swinging your rope loop at) get up there? JL
probably some real climber put it there so the cheaters have some chance...? :wink:
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azrockclimber
Dec 28, 2005, 12:01 PM
Post #138 of 265
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I do agree that lead climbing with one locking biner tie in is a mistake that shouldn't be repeated. karlbaba, i know you been around the block, but a single-rope tie-in to a single locking 'bean is precisely what bridwell, westbay and long used on the nose in '75. hey BVB...what kind of an irresponsible asshole would advocate safety proceedures used 30 years ago.... you sound like an absolute tard to me... you would probably make it out alight in a fall but why would you say it is "fine" and just becasue you dropped the name of climbing heros of the past and how they did it, does not mean that anyone today who wants to have a long life of climbing and experiences should use those types of safety precautions. Climbing is dangerous enough as it is. Why do less then you need to on a single pitch sport route.??? And it was a beginner !!!!!!! IDIOT.... Shut up and die. Immediately. You f---ing retarded n00b. Curt
who are you talking too?? noob?...right...
BVB's comments were Bad advice...period...not even close to a cohesive arguement that can be backed up. Leading, tied into one locking biner is a horrible idea. Could you get away with it? Probably. Would you always? Defintely not.
Who sounds like a noob curt? Plus backing up your idot buddies irresponsible remarks makes you sound just as experienced. And the thing that really gets me is that I know that BVB has been climbing for a long time and I believe that you have as well...
Way to go you two.
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socalclimber
Dec 28, 2005, 12:54 PM
Post #139 of 265
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It's hard to believe this has gone on for ten pages. It's all pretty simple. Back clipping bad. Tie in with caribiner bad.
Not back clipping good, direct tie into harness good.
I know, let's write an entire book on the subject.
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j_ung
Dec 28, 2005, 1:21 PM
Post #140 of 265
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Leezardgirl, you trophy hog, if I weren't already married... :) Sure, put your pants on and say that! Pantsist! :P I would reply to this shocking accusation of pantsism, but then I might be accused of flirting with a married man. I don't flirt with married men. The guy I'm seeing will vouch for that. So will his wife. :lol:
That's OK. I don't flirt with unmarried women who wear pants.
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azrockclimber
Dec 28, 2005, 1:42 PM
Post #141 of 265
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In reply to: It's hard to believe this has gone on for ten pages. It's all pretty simple. Back clipping bad. Tie in with caribiner bad. Not back clipping good, direct tie into harness good. I know, let's write an entire book on the subject.
no sh*t. haha... I just can't stand experienced climbers even suggesting that any of these things are okay. It just goes to show that some of these climbers, despite their 25+ years experince, cannot be looked to for sound advice. I bet their ass that BVB isn't leading with one locking carabiner either. !! Now, If he was then I would be much more comfortable with his level of ignorance and the comments that he stands by.!! :lol:
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sausalito
Dec 28, 2005, 2:19 PM
Post #142 of 265
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The point everyone is missing is that this "crag"
1) a pretty lame place although it does have a few good routes
2) has very little approach
3) is 10 minutes from the University of Tennessee, Knoxville-- this is the only reason people go there...
UT has about 30,000 students.... students are usually young and have a lot of time on their hands.... all this equals idiots out at this place doing things like this.
On top of all this, the belay is a pretty small trail that drops off sharply into the tennessee river. Falling off of that ledge, which both the climber and belayer could/would do if one were to deck hard, would be very serious and I can only bet that they had no lower anchor to at least ensure that the belayer wouldnt pitch off the ledge. There are so many more factors that make this picture idiotic but in the end these kids have every right to be there. We can all hope that people know the basics a little better and an injury at this little local spot would almost insure that it would be closed or at least harder to access but some people just dont care.
They rule. You suck. Its the young males perspective all too often. The more they get blasted on here the more they are going to put up their defenses. I am not defending their actions or their response but next time if you are really concerned about someone and their safety methods pm them. Putting them on blast, unless they unlike almost every young male I met in knoxville, will only put them on their heels and make they puff their chests out even more.......
Plus they were stoked enough about the photo to put it up on here which says a lot in and of itself.
Kids in this photo-- be safe.
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ajkclay
Dec 28, 2005, 3:19 PM
Post #143 of 265
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Registered: May 9, 2002
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In reply to: In reply to: yes, I am well aware of the ability to demonstrate how to unclip a simulated backclip with your hands, however, as you acknowledge, you need to hold the top biner firmly, something which does not normally occur on either bolted nor trad routes, and even with the demo condition it does not occur often. As I said, in real conditions with a quickdraw clipped in all different orientations and positions against real rock (even jammed against something to prevent it from moving) the rope never unclipped... Not once. The first time it was demonstrated to me was on real rock, clipped to a bolt... the rope ripped right out on a simulated fall, complete with a simulated not-very-dynamic belay. And I've seen it happen since, not in a simulation. I'm not saying it will always happen. But it can, if the fall is right. That's enough of a risk for me to say that backclipping is a rather large deal.
Hi, I think that you are missing my point though;
Simulated conditions do not qualify as evidence in something like this as there are way too many normal variables that are taken out of the equation, the most important being the point at which the rope takes up the weight of the falling climber and begins to transfer some of that energy to the 'biner.
More interesting to me though is when did you see it occur? I am very interested in how it happened and what the conditions were.
Cheers
Adam
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curt
Dec 28, 2005, 4:41 PM
Post #144 of 265
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I do agree that lead climbing with one locking biner tie in is a mistake that shouldn't be repeated. karlbaba, i know you been around the block, but a single-rope tie-in to a single locking 'bean is precisely what bridwell, westbay and long used on the nose in '75. hey BVB...what kind of an irresponsible asshole would advocate safety proceedures used 30 years ago.... you sound like an absolute tard to me... you would probably make it out alight in a fall but why would you say it is "fine" and just becasue you dropped the name of climbing heros of the past and how they did it, does not mean that anyone today who wants to have a long life of climbing and experiences should use those types of safety precautions. Climbing is dangerous enough as it is. Why do less then you need to on a single pitch sport route.??? And it was a beginner !!!!!!! IDIOT.... Shut up and die. Immediately. You f---ing retarded n00b. Curt who are you talking too?? noob?...right... BVB's comments were Bad advice...period...not even close to a cohesive arguement that can be backed up. Leading, tied into one locking biner is a horrible idea. Could you get away with it? Probably. Would you always? Defintely not. Who sounds like a noob curt? Plus backing up your idot buddies irresponsible remarks makes you sound just as experienced. And the thing that really gets me is that I know that BVB has been climbing for a long time and I believe that you have as well... Way to go you two.
To preserve any remote chance of sounding intelligent, use a spell check.
I would never suggest that a n00b lead while clipped into the rope with a carabiner. And, I believe that back-clipping can be bad when sportarding. I was merely backing up BVB's comment that there can be a time and place where these things aren't a big deal.
Oh, and I was also indicating that you, like 99% of the people posting in this thread have no clue when those situations would be.
Curt
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greenketch
Dec 28, 2005, 5:51 PM
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Aj, Here is the situation when a backclipped biner unclipped on me. Now mind you I was falling but then again it is amazing how time slows :o
I was on a fairly steep slab (80-85 degrees) The route wandered abit and the last pro was approx 12 ft below me. I believe that in my fussing with the rope I had flipped the biener over so that the rope was entering on the back and exiting the front. The twist and the wander allowed that when I greased the slack did not travel down through the biener but followed me. In my slide and tumble a loop of rope crossed over the biener. The rope came tight for just a moment and then it pulled and I went down some more.
I really believe that the biggest contributing factors were the rope not being able to easily slide down in the fall. The other is the loop that was inadvertantly tossed over the biener.
I as well have seen very few cases of backclipping and would be inerestedd in others actual experiences.
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skinner
Dec 28, 2005, 6:33 PM
Post #146 of 265
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.................-=The End=-
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laprade
Dec 28, 2005, 6:52 PM
Post #147 of 265
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I cannot believe that anyone would actually trust a single locking biner to tie in, ever, on lead!
What about redundancy, intellegence, and common sense?
The one great thing about the internet is that it helps identify the incompetent.
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cracklover
Dec 28, 2005, 6:57 PM
Post #148 of 265
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Sausalito - interesting background info, thanks!
GO
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bvb
Dec 28, 2005, 7:33 PM
Post #149 of 265
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In reply to: Oh, and I was also indicating that you, like 99% of the people posting in this thread have no clue when those situations would be.
yeah, the point i was making somewhere back in this clusterfuck of a thread is that people have, and still do, tie in with locking beaners in order to expedite rapid changeovers at belays -- most typically when blitzing long routes.
as for TARDS, my favorite response so far is the person who failed to realize i was being sarcastic when i asked "so what is this figure eight device of which you speak?" and they proceeded....to answer my question!
heh. god, i love this place. the entertainment never, ever stops. when you get 5-year "veterans" who don't realize they're still full-blown n00bs, well hell, it can get to be more fun than a monkey-shite fight at the zoo....
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bvb
Dec 28, 2005, 7:39 PM
Post #150 of 265
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In reply to: I cannot believe that anyone would actually trust a single locking biner to tie in, ever, on lead!
well, ok. you're entitled to your opinion.
but just so we're clear: there are big, fat, monstrous locking 'beans on the market that, even when cross-loaded at the gate -- which is a scenario virtually impossible to effect in a leader fall -- still test out at thousands of lbs. sorry 'bout that.
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