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nvrsmr14
Jan 3, 2006, 1:17 AM
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This last weekend at Indian Creek one of my friends took a whipper on to a orange alien and it failed. The head of the cam completely ripped away from the stem. This was a brand new cam and should have held this fall. There was 25 feet of rope out and the fall was only four feet and had a dynamic belay. This is only a fall factor of .16 Has anyone heard about a manufacture defect or a recall on this cam?
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tattooed_climber
Jan 3, 2006, 1:29 AM
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shoot cch an email....they also may want to see it (for defects)
info@aliencams.com [info@aliencams.com]
or
cch@aliencamsbycch.com
INGNOR THOSE TWO....the new email is cchaliens@aol.com
edited to update the address
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saxonyclimber
Jan 3, 2006, 1:49 AM
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Please post pictures!
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caughtinside
Jan 3, 2006, 2:06 AM
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On a semi related note, I recently purchased a 2nd orange alien.
A quick visible inspection makes it look like the new one is almost 1/4" wider than my old one!
I'll break out the measuring tape.
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miavzero
Jan 3, 2006, 2:37 AM
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I have always been fond of my aliens, but cch seems to have really gone downhill in the last year. When I called them regarding the improperly drilled axle holes on a batch of oranges, I got the impression that they didn't really care. Engineers and other climbers that I spoke to all believed that a recall should have been issued.
My aliens have served me well, but CCH seems to think that they shouldn't be accountable for their work/customer service, because they are a small company. I believe that small companies should be held to the highest standard of quality and customer service. I'm glad to see that more dependable companies are working on innovative cam designs.
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insainio
Jan 3, 2006, 3:37 AM
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Hi, I'm the guy that took the fall on this cam. I've never heard or seen of anything like this happening before! As you can see the stem completely dislocated from the axle.
Heres some background info:
I weigh 135 without gear on, I had placed three pieces of pro which where in a relatively straight line and I received a dynamic belay. I fell 8 feet with 24 feet of rope out which equals a fall factor of .3333 (not .16 which we previously thought). Thankfully I backed it up with a .75 Camelot which saved me from decking.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Kevin
http://img.villagephotos.com/...1130263/IMG_0210.jpg
Edited to insert images
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dudemanbu
Jan 3, 2006, 3:56 AM
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glad you're okay.
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edge
Jan 3, 2006, 4:05 AM
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I am also glad you are OK!
Trad falls are scary enough, without worrying about gear ripping. I saw the cam marks skating out of Supercrack in 1985, when cams were still babies on the market; I can only imagine the horror show there now.
I do not personally own any aliens, but have used multitudes over the years while climbing on other people's racks.
Sadly, I have to agree with miavzero that the last few year's worth are severely compromised in quality control. Many, I recall, were drilled and assembled with the wrong cam axis, rendering them inconsistant at best, and useless at worst.
This may not apply to every single cam that they sold, but I think the ratio is not worth investing in.
More discussion here: http://www.supertopo.com/..._id=105618#msg105826
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insainio
Jan 3, 2006, 4:09 AM
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Here are more pics to shed some more light on the situation.
http://img.villagephotos.com/...1130263/IMG_0206.jpg
This is the point at which I fell. As you can see the orange alien is at about foot level and the .75 is right below it.
http://img.villagephotos.com/...1130263/IMG_0207.jpg
Here is me falling and the piece spinning towards me. I fell trying to clip the red alien that is still in the crack.
Hopefully these pictures offer more information on the circumstances leading up to this failure.
Kevin
Edited for images
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jermeng
Jan 3, 2006, 4:18 AM
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REI did issue a recall of some unsold orange cams this past October. I'll have to look up the quality return memo when I get to the store. It did have to do with the range of the cams but not the performance. It indicated a date range of the units to be returned, though I don't remember these dates off-hand. I'll get back with some more details once I find the memo.
-Jeremy
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climbinginchico
Jan 3, 2006, 4:19 AM
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The pics don't work for me, even after I copy and paste the url's when i click on quote. do you have another place to host them?
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enjoimx
Jan 3, 2006, 4:31 AM
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Pics not working for me either....would love to see them.
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themightyjimbo
Jan 3, 2006, 6:04 AM
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wow. glad you are still with us. definitely contact cch.
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thomaskeefer
Jan 3, 2006, 6:12 AM
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Those pics are crazy! Has anyone had any luck contacting CCH about this? I have been having some problems keeping my newer aliens sludge free for some reason which is odd since the old ones (~8 years or so) are still snappy and work great. I dont really think that they are mistreated at all it just seems the action is not as good...
Hmm..
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areuinclimber
Jan 3, 2006, 6:17 AM
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if they dont handle this right i see a mass boycott in the near future.
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landgolier
Jan 3, 2006, 6:42 AM
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I know it's hard to take notes during wingers, but did the thing offer any resistance at all, or did it just blow like it wasn't even there?
glad you're ok, gear failure sucks.
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healyje
Jan 3, 2006, 7:05 AM
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I have two sets of hybrids and after the other thread about the mis-manufactured aliens with the axle hole drilled in the wrong location I checked mine. They have slight but observable variances in the axle hole location on same size cams and the cam lobes themselves have some interesting though equally slight differences relative to their shapes.
At this point it's clear that this more of craft/artist shop like a blacksmith or jewelry outfit and not a "normal/standard" manufacturing operation. From a pure manufacturing perspective none of these outcomes or behaviors would ever be tolerated let alone go publicly unacknowledged and addressed. And while the company still retains a fiercely loyal following who clearly understand and accept the "craft" nature of this operation, my feeling is each piece you buy should be carefully inspected prior to purchase and use. I like the design of my hybrids, but beyond that I personally have much, much higher expections from any manufacturing operation that produces gear I hang my life on...
Oh, and here is a cleaned up version of the shot:
http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/...0/6299img0210_1_.jpg
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twclimber
Jan 3, 2006, 7:18 AM
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this is bullsh1t!
I have been a loyal user of aliens for years. What the hell has happened to this company? I'm tired of defending them. I'm quitting the cch cult for good!
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ricardol
Jan 3, 2006, 7:28 AM
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i have a double set of aliens + a double set of offsets ..
.. please do let us know what the response from CCH is .. i hope they treat you well .. and that they thoroughly investigate this failure ..
.. otherwise i may have to find a new favorite cam ..
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cruzinsouthoc
Jan 3, 2006, 7:29 AM
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First of all, glad you're alright man...
I've never heard of this kind of cam failure before. I use my red and orange Aliens all the time. Mine seem to look OK, I've placed and tugged on them, but never took a lead fall on them.
Is there anymore information on the Orange Alien recall at REI?
Aliens are very popular so if anybody learns about any signs of defect to look for, please let everyone know. I'm going to take a closer look at mine again before I use them again.
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healyje
Jan 3, 2006, 7:29 AM
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When was that cam purchased and from where?
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roshiaitareya
Jan 3, 2006, 7:38 AM
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Just sue CCH for not meeting safety standards. Then you'll be able to afford all the climbing gear you've ever wanted. And I charge 3% giving you the idea.
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horseonwheels
Jan 3, 2006, 8:06 AM
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Here's a discussion about the orange axle fiasco from supertopo.com.
http://www.supertopo.com/..._id=105618#msg112075
I'm interested to hear what CCH says about your exploding cam. I have been considering adding Aliens to complement my TCU's after using other peoples', but I'm beginning to think that I might want to wait for the C3's after everything I've been hearing about CCH.
Oh yeah.... and nice placement of that .75!!!
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elepita
Jan 3, 2006, 9:01 AM
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I took my first fall on a yellow alien and it held beautifully, I was leading aid though, it was not a big fall, maybe only 1 metre and a half, which would be 6 feet I guess (??). Anyway, I have heard of problems with aliens before, gladly I have not experienced one yet. Please keep us posted as to what CCH tells you. On another subject, I would like to ask people in this thread what feedback, if any, would you guys give to wild country cams, they donīt look very sturdy to me, but they might be great, I donīt know. I would like to know from you what are your experiences, especially if any with the smallest ones. Thanks!
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andy_reagan
Jan 3, 2006, 1:21 PM
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Was this the first fall this orange alien ever had to hold? So, in other words, if you had bounce tested it in a static sling (which puts tremendous forces on a peice correct me if I'm wrong?) you might would of averted this near disaster.
Comments?
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