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pindrvr75
Jan 25, 2006, 7:58 PM
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Registered: Nov 3, 2005
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My project route has a lot of overhangs and lengthy tension traverses and will require a bivvy or two. Hauling will be problematic so I'm looking for suggestions on how to rig the bag so that the second can essentially guide it along in between pro pieces. I'm thinking of putting double biners on selected pieces that are at the points where we change directions to keep the bag from swinging free into areas that it will get stuck. This leaves the problem of running the haul line with the belay even though it is through separate biners. Keep in mind that the climb will be some pitches of aid and some trad. We're looking for some speed here.
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montana_g
Jan 25, 2006, 8:23 PM
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Hey,
Can't you just tie a long trail line to the pig and have your second lower it out until its straight below the leader before starting to haul? On an overhanging wall, even better—you don't gotta worry about the pig snagging on anything on the way up. Also, the lower-out line is a super-good thing to yank on to get the pig unstuck from little jams. It sounds like you're a pretty experienced aider, so you probably already know of this and there's something I'm missing in your description that makes it impossible...
I use a 7-mil cord as a lower-out line and leave it coiled with the pig most of the time. Good Luck :!:
PS—I wouldn't run the hall line through pieces on a traverse. I'm picturing the pig going for a ride off the ledge, zippering the next piece(s), and taking your second (who is also through the piece) on a big, big ride (likely into the nice corner system where you set up the belay...)
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pindrvr75
Jan 25, 2006, 9:01 PM
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I'm sorry, I should have been more clear in the description that there are sections that require the haul bag to follow in the exact path that the climbers must take. Use a chimney with an overhang above it for an example. The bag would have to follow up the chimney then take a turn around the overhang. If it went left instead of right it would be stuck neccessatating a gentle nudge by the ascending second for a proper follow through.
(Edited) I forgot to reply to the pro issue.
I was only considering utilizing pin pro for the direction changes. I'm trying to find a better way to get this thing to follow without utilizing a large amount of gear that the second would have to pull. What I'm thinking now is that maybe I'll look for seperate placements for the bag on small nuts that will be pulled out by the moving bag and lay on top of it as they're pulled out totally independant of the belay line. As the haul bag placements fail, the bag should swing to the next placement.
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montana_g
Jan 25, 2006, 9:30 PM
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I guess you could clip the pig into only BOMBER pieces, or if that 'aint possible, place a second directional piece and clip only the pig-line to it. You'd have to make sure the pig-line didn't get tangled with the lead line (on which your second, presumably, is jugging).
As an anecdote—I totally blew this very thing traversing toward Camp IV on the Nose, years ago. Got the haul line tangled with the lead line, and all fubar-ed through pieces. Yes, a noob mistake and I'm glad it's far in my past... made for a rather late night.
The key there seemed to be to pack light and plan to suffer due to lack of cappucino, rather than suffering due to a heavy pig—you're gonna suffer a bit either way, and it might as well be for less overall time (maybe your experience on walls is different than mine?). Cut those tags off those tea bags and decide on moving a little faster and lighter, rather than carrying a massive pig (especially if you can retreat off this project if things don't transpire copacetically).
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pindrvr75
Jan 25, 2006, 9:55 PM
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I like the idea of the e-collar other than what it's originally used for. I've even got one. The significant other saved it just in case the dog wasn't the only one jumping the fence. That's a whole lot better than the cutout bleach bottle. We'll give it a go with a 60m x 8mm line.
Thanks
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stymingersfink
Jan 28, 2006, 1:32 AM
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In reply to: I guess you could clip the pig into only BOMBER pieces, or if that 'aint possible...
Ain't possible, not withoug creating quite a headache. Can you imagine trying to lift a 100+lb pig to unclip it, while tension is being given from above/side? You'd have to dock the pig and re-lower out from each piece clipped. F-That!
Now, if you're just talking about a haul-pack, then go for it. Pig? Never.
Go with the long lower-out line, long enough that the second can hold the end of the lower out line while jugging/cleaning. This way s/he can give it some jiggy to un-stuck-it. The more overhanging the route, the easier it will be to haul. The slabbier the route, the more work the hauling will be.
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pindrvr75
Jan 31, 2006, 7:33 PM
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Stymingerfink's dialed in on exactly the problem. The route zig zags consistantly through obstacles where it is impossible to lower out and away enough to keep the 80# pig on track. We tried it a day ago with the eliz collar and that worked well but the second still had to nudge the bag while climbing due to the rope angle that was created by the sections that zig zagged under a couple of roofs where the belay was above the overhang. Most folks have suggested to shorten the pitch where hauling is less of a problem but it 's difficult because the particular pitch has a lot of rotten rock where a good anchor is only available at length. There is already a good bit of rope drag even with pro slings long enough that you can just barely reach the biner to unclip. The route can be described at best as an inverted circular staircase if that makes sense to anyone. Thanks for the help folks, we're getting closer to the solution.
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