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wntrprkskier32
Jan 20, 2006, 8:34 PM
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Last summer my dad and I went out to Colorado and did a guided climbing trip. Since then we have bought some gear and started doing some toproping. There are several mixed routes in my area. When we decide to do some lead climbing (which won't be for a while) how many of each size of cam do you buy? The routes require up to 3 inches of pro. Some info would be appreciated.
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bobruef
Jan 20, 2006, 8:51 PM
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The gear you carry trad climbing is typically refered to as a rack, and includes cams. Do a search, and you'll find that lots of people have posted what their ideal rack has.
The long answer- It really depends on a lot of things, climbing style, length of route, personal preference, the site you climb at.
The short answer-
One set of cams is good, two can be better.
.5-3 Camalots, with doubles in .75-2, and a set of nuts would be an excellent start as far as pro goes. Later you may want to add more small cams
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bluering
Jan 20, 2006, 9:00 PM
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First of all, I'd suggest mastering top-roping, and then try some moderate sport climbs (only requires quickdraws and a helmet) so you get a feel for leading. Then follow a lead with trad gear and get a feel for placing gear. Then do an easy trad lead.....
For gear, it's very dependant on the type of rock and the area you're climbing. Cams cover a huge range of rock though. For larger placements get bigger cams like Camalot sizes .75 thru 3 or even 4. You may want doubles in that range too, but for a single pitch climb 1 each would probably do ya. And also get one (or two eventually) sets of nuts or stoppers. I like have two sets of different brands and then mixing them together. And you'll need a few 24" slings for weird placements to lower rope drag. You're quickdraws may work for this reason in a pinch, but I like slings better. Oh,....and buy lots and lots of 'biners.
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musicman1586
Jan 20, 2006, 9:01 PM
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I'm sure others will say this, and since I'm not sure what gear you have already this may not be a valid comment. But don't buy cams to begin with, buy passive protection and get good at placing it, it's a good fundamental knowledge for anyone.
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mcfoley
Jan 20, 2006, 9:08 PM
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I'd suggest buying pro composed of 1 set of stoppers, and one of each size Camalots .5 to 3 (or equivalent).
That's a good starter rack for SINGLE pitch routes.
Of course the gear required will depend on the route you are choosing to attempt to send.
Use a guidebook for reference on gear suggestions.
Mike
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moose_droppings
Jan 20, 2006, 9:56 PM
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I'd suggest to hold off on the cams for a while. Lets back up and cover the basics. You got a harness, rope, webbing, locking biners? When your secure enough in your skills to move away from TR and following sport, get a few quickdraws and learn to lead a little on sport. Get yourself a set of nuts (think we can all agree on them), maybe some hexes and practice setting them on the ground or while following or leading some bolted routes. During these times you can be checking out what others are leaning towards in gear and slowly buying a piece hear and there filling it what is needed (check out sales, piece here and a piece there). The different nuances in cams becomes highly subjective to personal preferences and rock thats being climbed. Hopefully by climbing with different people you'll get the feel for some different types of cams and will be able to make some of your own calls. Climb on others gear as much as you can :lol:
Take your time, you got your whole life ahead of ya.
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wntrprkskier32
Jan 20, 2006, 10:56 PM
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Thanks
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mcfoley
Jan 21, 2006, 1:35 AM
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In reply to: I'd suggest to hold off on the cams for a while. Lets back up and cover the basics. You got a harness, rope, webbing, locking biners? When your secure enough in your skills to move away from TR and following sport, get a few quickdraws and learn to lead a little on sport. Get yourself a set of nuts (think we can all agree on them), maybe some hexes and practice setting them on the ground or while following or leading some bolted routes. During these times you can be checking out what others are leaning towards in gear and slowly buying a piece hear and there filling it what is needed (check out sales, piece here and a piece there). The different nuances in cams becomes highly subjective to personal preferences and rock thats being climbed. Hopefully by climbing with different people you'll get the feel for some different types of cams and will be able to make some of your own calls. Climb on others gear as much as you can :lol: Take your time, you got your whole life ahead of ya.
moose_droppings has made some Good suggestions!!!
To the OP...
My post above was assuming the following...
A) your dad was buying.
B) you would get some solid experience and guidance before hitting up the trad scene.
Since you simply asked for gear advice- not how to learn to trad...
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tradrenn
Jan 21, 2006, 1:39 AM
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To the above advises I would like to add my 2 cents.
Read "Climbing Anchors" and "More Climbing Anchors"
Essential reading for future trad climber.
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joshy8200
Jan 28, 2006, 6:29 AM
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In reply to: But don't buy cams to begin with, buy passive protection and get good at placing it, it's a good fundamental knowledge for anyone.
I disagree with this broad generalization that is thrown around a lot. I have 3 hexes on my rack...that rarely, get used except when I 'make' a concious effort to place one. One of my buddy has NEVER had hexes on his rack.
This really depends on the area...some area may exclusively protect with hexes.
So...I would disregard the start with passive pro comments and learn them all at the sametime.
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iclime
Jan 29, 2006, 3:36 AM
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In reply to: I disagree with this broad generalization that is thrown around a lot. I have 3 hexes on my rack...that rarely, get used except when I 'make' a concious effort to place one. One of my buddy has NEVER had hexes on his rack. This really depends on the area...some area may exclusively protect with hexes. So...I would disregard the start with passive pro comments and learn them all at the sametime.
The main advantage I see to starting out learning to place passive gear before jumping into SLCDs is twofold:
o You will become more readily familiar with what constitutes a good placement and what will pull right out. Plenty of crappy cam placements will stay put, even with a quick yank or two, only to pull out, skate, or tip under a full load. Hexes, on the other hand, have fewer shades of gray. Seeing how easily some hex placements will pull out has the added benefit of making the new leader more cautious of his active cam placements later. o The new leader isn't afraid to place gear from their entire rack. Many times I see students overconfident in their cam placements and under-confident in everything else. They'll stuff a cam in before anything else (even when other gear would be better) and end up half way up the pitch with nothing but wires and little knowledge of how to use them. Besides the above reasons for learning to place passive protection, if you plan to do any alpine/mountaineering climbing, it really pays dividends on the weight savings if you can do without or with fewer cams.
On the other hand, cams are unquestionably easier to learn, so if your goal is to climb as early and as much as possible, they may be more down your alley.
M
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lextalion
Feb 1, 2006, 5:51 AM
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[quote="bluering"]First of all, I'd suggest mastering top-roping, and then try some moderate sport climbs (only requires quick draws and a helmet) so you get a feel for leading. Then follow a lead with trad gear and get a feel for placing gear. Then do an easy trad lead.....quote]
wntrprkskier32 - As far as purchasing a rack goes, Bluering stated it pretty well. My rack, I got through an on line store and consisted of stoppers, hexes & a set of cams. I also found a decent deal on draws that I purchased . :shock:
Within two years of having my fledgling rack I've doubled my cams and built up quite a collection of slings, not to mentioned have added to my stopper collection.
A word worth listening to is when you get your first set of cams. Make sure and get the Camalot C-4's. you'll have more partners willing to climb with you as well as save weight in your rack. :D Secondly get your self some aliens in the smaller sizes along with microcamalots C-3's.
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styndall
Feb 1, 2006, 6:44 AM
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In reply to: \ A word worth listening to is when you get your first set of cams. Make sure and get the Camalot C-4's. you'll have more partners willing to climb with you as well as save weight in your rack. :D Secondly get your self some aliens in the smaller sizes along with microcamalots C-3's.
Or you could skip the C3s and and get twice the number of cams with some other brand.
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salamanizer
Feb 2, 2006, 6:19 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: \ A word worth listening to is when you get your first set of cams. Make sure and get the Camalot C-4's. you'll have more partners willing to climb with you as well as save weight in your rack. :D Secondly get your self some aliens in the smaller sizes along with microcamalots C-3's. Or you could skip the C3s and and get twice the number of cams with some other brand.
Yeah, which brands? Besides, I'd rather be broke and be climbing on gear I like than climbing on some Pagan gear closeout sale junk that I don't. Cheap gear is just that. I'll stick to my C4's, aliens, TCU's and HB offsets all hanging on neutrino's to boot. I'd only use your rack to bail off of.
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qtm
Feb 2, 2006, 3:13 PM
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I would suggest you hold off on buying any trad gear until you've actually led a route. Take some guided lessons, ask to lead on their gear, and see how it feels. There's a huge difference between toproping and leading, even more when you're placing your own gear. Every week you see people selling their brand new racks on ebay because they sunk $$$ into a rack before they tried it, and when they did, they discovered being on the sharp end isn't for them.
Of course, there's nothing wrong with buying a rack if you're not worried about losing money selling it later, or if you're really committed to it. But it's highly recommended to get some instruction before using it.
Anway, scroll back through the the beginner, general, gear heads, and trad forums and click on any thread that has "rack" in the title, you'll see at least one rack question every 20 threads or so. Not everyone responds to every thread, so reading through them and you'll get a good idea of what people are recommending.
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bobruef
Feb 2, 2006, 3:35 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: \ A word worth listening to is when you get your first set of cams. Make sure and get the Camalot C-4's. you'll have more partners willing to climb with you as well as save weight in your rack. :D Secondly get your self some aliens in the smaller sizes along with microcamalots C-3's. Or you could skip the C3s and and get twice the number of cams with some other brand.
While perhaps a slight stretch, he makes a good point. Right now a lot of places have regular TCU's for less than 40 bucks a pop (ie. backcountryoutlet for $38.59). C3s retail for 70 bucks.
So yeah, you really could get double the number in another brand (plus 7 bucks), but we're not talking about climbaxe or some other crap, we're talking TCUs.
The $70 price tag on the C3's is pretty hefty no matter how you slice it. Before the alien scandal I wouldn't consider dropping that much on a microcam, when plenty of other viable options existed in the 50 dollar range. But they are looking pretty good lately.
I'll stick with the aliens for now.
Another interesting thing to consider: the largest C3 runs about the same size range as the yellow alien. I think BD would do well to make a couple sizes bigger as well, taking into consideration that most C4 users don't opt for the 0.4 and 0.3 sizes. I think its safe to say that most prefer tcus or aliens in this sizing.
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puerto
Feb 2, 2006, 4:49 PM
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Definitely learn to lead sport first
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bobruef
Feb 2, 2006, 5:20 PM
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In reply to: Definitely learn to lead sport first
or don't
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giver
Feb 2, 2006, 5:53 PM
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go climbing with someone that is experienced and climb on thier stuff. That way you can find out what gear your stoked on. Then go buy the stuff you like. Like when I started trad climbing I looked in a catalogue and saw this big metolius cam and thought, man that thing looks friggin spiffy but in fact after a couple weeks the action got all mucked up. (go with smaller metolius cams in my opinion) Figure out what is good before buying.
enjoy.
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kydd76
Feb 2, 2006, 8:46 PM
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piece by piece my rack will grow, where did all my cash go?
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lextalion
Feb 4, 2006, 5:00 AM
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In reply to: Yeah, which brands? Besides, I'd rather be broke and be climbing on gear I like than climbing on some Pagan gear closeout sale junk that I don't. Cheap gear is just that. I'll stick to my C4's, aliens, TCU's and HB offsets all hanging on neutrino's to boot. I'd only use your rack to bail off of.
To Bad that HB's is out of business from what I heard. I love them brassies. As for neutrinos, they're a bit small for my liking, but I do love the BD Hotwires and Omega Pacific Five-O Wiregates. I also climb with Wild country Tech friends but they're now more than a full set of C-4's.
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punk_rocker333
Feb 4, 2006, 5:10 AM
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Buy passive pro (nuts, hexes, tricams) and learn how to place it. Also buy lots of carabiners and slings. Oh, and get some experience first. There's no substitute for lots of outdoor climbing on sport and top rope.
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lextalion
Feb 4, 2006, 5:34 AM
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In reply to: piece by piece my rack will grow, where did all my cash go?
Its the money or your life! Which is worth more or so I tell my wife when I want some new gear
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salamanizer
Feb 4, 2006, 5:42 AM
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In reply to: Yeah, which brands? Besides, I'd rather be broke and be climbing on gear I like than climbing on some Pagan gear closeout sale junk that I don't. Cheap gear is just that. I'll stick to my C4's, aliens, TCU's and HB offsets all hanging on neutrino's to boot. I'd only use your rack to bail off of.
In reply to: To Bad that HB's is out of business from what I heard. I love them brassies. As for neutrinos, they're a bit small for my liking, but I do love the BD Hotwires and Omega Pacific Five-O Wiregates. I also climb with Wild country Tech friends but they're now more than a full set of C-4's.
I'm with you on the HB thing. Wallnuts and Peanuts are good, but nothing beats the HB's I hear Trango is picking up the design. Lets hope someone is. The neutrino's are great for some weight savings, but I'm starting to get the idea that the trade off wasn't worth it. I hate when my finger gets caught in the gate. I'm thinking about switching over to Dovals. Tech friends are more than C-4's? Woh, how will they survive?
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climbinginchico
Feb 4, 2006, 6:33 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Yeah, which brands? Besides, I'd rather be broke and be climbing on gear I like than climbing on some Pagan gear closeout sale junk that I don't. Cheap gear is just that. I'll stick to my C4's, aliens, TCU's and HB offsets all hanging on neutrino's to boot. I'd only use your rack to bail off of. In reply to: To Bad that HB's is out of business from what I heard. I love them brassies. As for neutrinos, they're a bit small for my liking, but I do love the BD Hotwires and Omega Pacific Five-O Wiregates. I also climb with Wild country Tech friends but they're now more than a full set of C-4's. I'm with you on the HB thing. Wallnuts and Peanuts are good, but nothing beats the HB's I hear Trango is picking up the design. Lets hope someone is. The neutrino's are great for some weight savings, but I'm starting to get the idea that the trade off wasn't worth it. I hate when my finger gets caught in the gate. I'm thinking about switching over to Dovals. Tech friends are more than C-4's? Woh, how will they survive?
DMM bought the design, not Trango. Where did you hear that? DMM has had the design for, literally, months.
Dovals suck. Get superflys or heliums if you don't like the Neutrino. Everyone I know who has dovals on their rack uses them as bail biners. The gates get sticky super fast. They also are too symmetrical, without a well distinguished nose. I can't stand em.
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