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pindrvr75
Feb 9, 2006, 12:52 AM
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This system uses two 10mm(?) ropes. The leader clips in one rope the majority of the time and the other rope occaisionally. At the end of the lead the rope with the most clips is fixed for the second to jug and clean and the second rope is used to belay him in case the fixed line is cut.
The pig is suspended on a small anchor with a fifi at the bottom of the fixed rope with allowed slack to jug. When the second reaches the anchor the fixed line is hauled on, lifting the pig off the fifi to the anchor.
Should the fixed line somehow be cut, one may rap down to the pig anchor and retreive one's gear.
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timm
Feb 9, 2006, 1:04 AM
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You seem to be overly concerned about a fixed line being "cut". Why? That doesn't happen very often especically if the leader takes cares about running the rope away from sharp edges. Human errors leading to accidents seem to be more prevalent, IMHO.
Any system which requires the leader to belay the 2nd and then haul later is going to be slower than the traditional system of the 2nd jugging/cleaning while the leader hauls.
But, I can't argue that you system does seem safer (if that's your goal.)
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timm
Feb 9, 2006, 1:05 AM
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Oh, one more thing, if I was doing a wall and conerned about a rope being cut, I'd opt for 11mm ropes and not 10mm, IHMO.
Cheers.
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pindrvr75
Feb 9, 2006, 4:41 AM
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I've been thinking of the huge risk incurred by the second when jugging. The leader always has a belay, why does the second not have that safety margin? Is it because statistics are in favor of not giving him one or is it that we have all become complacent in the relative security of our equipment.
For most trade routes the need probably does not exist. The euros do have a point here when the climb is on unstabile terrain and when there is some doubt as to whether it is prudent to climb slower than to risk an injured second.
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rockprodigy
Mar 10, 2006, 6:00 PM
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I think it's far more likely for the pig to accidentally get lifted off the anchor and shock load your entire system, then for the rope to get cut.
I've heard of the fifi method, but never jugging on that same rope. With all the bouncing, then the higher you get the, less stretch there is...seems like it would be easy to pull the haulbag up accidentally.
If you want a belay while jugging, wear the pig, jug on the haul line and get belayed on the lead rope. Or tie back up knots, that's what they're for.
Oh yeah, ropes don't get cut during one pitch of jugging...it just doesn't happen.
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stymingersfink
Mar 12, 2006, 2:42 AM
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In reply to: I've been thinking of the huge risk incurred by the second when jugging.
think less, jug more.
In fact, I'm looking for a cleaner this spring. Any chance you'll be available?
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