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boulderman
Mar 24, 2005, 7:07 PM
Post #26 of 41
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Ok, maybe you don't want it to be an international destination area, but I would guess that you want it to be at least a serious bouldering area respected by serious boulderers.
I know it's not "all about" going home with a tick list for you and I, but for many it is. For many the fun is getting up a problem within your range of abilities and having success when you are feeling strong. For many it is not fun when you are demoralized on a problem that is graded within a range that you would "walk" in any other area. Just because a local repeats a V5 10 times a day for two years and gets stronger doesn't mean the problem needs downgraded. You got stronger the problem didn't get easier.
The V6 in question is the "pocket problem" or something like that. Seems a bit stiff to me when a V14 climber gives it many goes and can't get it. Then walks away.
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madriver
Mar 24, 2005, 7:29 PM
Post #27 of 41
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In reply to: I think "destination area" is exactly what the opponents for the guide don't want....
...oh yeah...I forgot....it's a State Park...so you know...it's a locals hang out...so ..."Yankee Go Home"..."this is our playground".....mentality is classic. :roll:
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dbrayack
Mar 24, 2005, 10:30 PM
Post #28 of 41
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And not to be pompous or spray, but to be honest here, my hardest red-point is only 12d (actually a 12c/d), so if I can do a boulder problem, it is definitly not V7.
-Danno
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boulderman
Mar 25, 2005, 3:09 PM
Post #29 of 41
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Not to get into a "grades thing" here, but as an experienced climber you should know that climbing routes and bouldering are two distinctly different styles. I know a V10 climber who struggles on mid range 11's. He's burley as hell but lacks the experience, technique and endurance to get through a 50-foot climb.
I'm not going to argue, it's your guidebook. I'll continue to boulder at Coopers regardless of what the book says or what anyone else says. And besides, if a lot of climbers feel that the grades in the book are off, then maybe some non-local climbers will develop a revised guidebook for themselves. Who knows, maybe I'm the one who is wrong. Maybe the grades at Coopers are right on? But, I and otyhers here have climbed at a few places around the country, (south, west, and north), and I think a few problems at Coopers are a bit out of wack. Now, if you guys have gone and downgraded everthing for the new book, that's silly. Tomb Raider was a stiff legitimate V3. Not a long problem, but with a tough long move. It was good the way it was, why rate it a V2?
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chronicle
Mar 25, 2005, 3:29 PM
Post #30 of 41
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If nothing else, you incorporate the "MA" rating like in the Gunks.
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sherpaboy
May 15, 2005, 12:12 AM
Post #31 of 41
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Sorry for the delay...I've been busy here in the flat lands (i.e. Michigan). I know Dan is planning on persuing the bouldering guide in more detail, which I encourage. I'll be sharing muc of my data nd files with him as well. Then I'll also be updating mmy wesbite with these maps in a better format (as soon as I can). i have no delisuions of grandure and the site version will always be a free mini-guide for the masses. For more details, photos, and a wider range of areas you'll need to get the guide (when it comes out) from Dan.
I think Coopers has a lot of potential and the coolest part about the forest is you can hike out into the woods with a crash pad and some pals and just enjoy the place...some adventure bouldering is always fun. I also think there are some key areas that Dan's guide will address that will be great additions and make a comprehensive bouldering guide.
Dan expect some more e-mails soon... I'll probably be creating some more PDF's for the main areas only. as for artwork and tops, I used several methods. First I spent hundreds of hours walking and sketching the blocks, trails and generally locating as much as I could. I also had help from some locals who have been there for years and years (i.e C.S). Then I scanned in the sketches and used Autocad or Flash to trace the sketches, and finally dumped them into AI for cleaning and formatting into a PDF.
Unfortunately I can't make it to Cooper's and it has been a few years since I have even touched the gritstone...I wich I could, but I'd rather help Dan right now becuase he has the time and drive.
I'll post more as I get around to finishing up stuff and sharing it with Dan.
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rockclimbergabor
May 15, 2005, 12:30 AM
Post #32 of 41
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just out of curiosity, whats the hardest rated climb at Coopers? The most that ive heard is V8. Also, to the earlier comment, there really is no relation between how hard you climb on routes and boulders, personally i think a V7 is A LOT easier then a 13a is, but others may think otherwise.
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gearsighted
May 15, 2005, 1:22 AM
Post #33 of 41
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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I think the guide looks pretty good. Not to stray *too* far off topic here, but:
In reply to: If a V4 climber gets shut down on a bunch of Coopers V2's then that climber will just walk away in frustration and never come back. He/she as sure as hell won't be back to work that V3 project when they can go to Bishop in the winter and walk all of the V3's.
That is the lamest thing I've ever heard. If somebody is climbing for the grades to that extent, then they are into bouldering for the wrong reasons. I have been bouldering for around 3 years now, mostly in the Virginia area (with a trip to the New, a trip to Montana, and a few day trips to Boone, NC) and the only "graded" boulder problems that I've climbed (meaning the only problems that I actually knew the grade) were in the gym. I go out, find a line that looks challenging and fun, and do my best to climb it. I have had some really fun onsights, as well as some really fun 6 month projects, all of which I hace absolutely NO IDEA what the grade is. And to tell you the truth, I don't really care. Grades can be a nice suggestion of difficulty, but they aren't the goal in bouldering. If you are more in love with the numbers than the movement, I think you should take up some other hobby (and not anyone here in particular, since you were merely suggesting this idea for "other climbers")
In reply to: Remember the V scale is in reference to problems at Hueco Tanks and all new climbs should reflect and relate to that scale within reason
The V-scale is in reference to problems at Hueco, and was created by John Sherman. Even HE has disavowed the rating system now, choosing rather to climb for the movement only (much like John Gill and Jim Holloway, along with many others before him did)....makes you think.....
But, I will be looking forward to some decent beta for the area, which will make it easier to navigate around (which is always a nice thing when you're on a limited-time road trip with the wife and kids ;))
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catbiter
Jun 15, 2005, 2:34 AM
Post #34 of 41
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Registered: Nov 12, 2003
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I'm sick of this!!! I want to boulder because I want to climb hard..I want to climb because I need to know the grade....God! SOMEONE, ANYONE please put the guide out. I live in Pittsburgh and have been to Coopers 6 times and every time I climb the same thing. Everytime I see someone they are climbing something I have climbed or seen. If Coopers is supposed to be the big thing, please put a guide out because I have seen nothing but sharp rocks. Everyone speaks of locals that will show you things that will blow your mind. Every time I go it's all people who are there for the first or second time. Please put the guide out!!!!! (PS this one burly dude did show me some sport climbs and a trad that was great. Sorry if I came off mad. It's just, if Coopers is so great...prove it. The Mills has a guide and it's barely worth it.)
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sherpaboy
Feb 9, 2006, 4:37 PM
Post #35 of 41
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Registered: Mar 7, 2005
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Since my last post Dan decided he didn't want to work with me after all...And I kind of understand since I live in Michigan that it would be tough to produce a full guidebook. I am sure his guide will be done right as he has a lot of people watching and looking forward to it. But my goal has never been to make a full blown guide, but one that lists ethics, etiquette and covered the already popular areas. This isn't to say that my "starters guide to Cooper's" couldn't expand but I think that Coopers still offers that great adventure bouldering experience as well. Listing every problem or every possible problem is not my goal.
This said I have completed the "Starters guide to Bouldering at Coopers" in PDF format. This guide is large (8 meg) but when you print it you'll see it is fairly complete as well. The guide can be downloaded (FREE) and folded to make a nice hand held guide. This is a VERY PRELIMINARY version, as I am waiting to hear back from a few others that are reviewing it. To print it I would suggest doing a test run on the first few pages to make sure how your printer feeds and prints. Printing the odd pages #1, #3 then take these 2 pages and put them back in the printer. Then print pages 2 & 4 on the backside of 1 & 3. Fold in half and see if they line up correctly. When you have this figured out print all odd pages, then print all even pages on the backs of the odd pages. Fold the entire thing and voila.
Also let me state that my goal is not to undermine Dan's efforts or his guide when it does come out. I just didn't want all my hard work to waste away on the hard drive. So instead I hoping to let the CCRRC use this guide to help them increase membership interest and allow them to continue keeping Cooper's open for climbers. My hope is that this little guide will get climbers interested in the area enough to get involved and volunteer with the CCRRC http://www.coopersrockclimbers.org. And that there organization can continue to help maintain the area, and educate vesting climbers about Cooper's uniqueness. I also hope that anyone using this guide will do so responsibly, and read the etiquette and ethics portions as much as the route info.
Here is the preliminary 8 meg file - VERY PRELIMINARY!
http://trails-edge.com/...ulderguide2006-Z.pdf
I know the spelling needs to be looked at yet, and there pages that appear upside down are on purpose - they make sense when it is all printed out :wink: If you have suggestions or input please feel free to e-mail me directly sherpaboy@trails-edge.com
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microbarn
Feb 9, 2006, 6:03 PM
Post #36 of 41
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Registered: May 12, 2004
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looks good to me so far.
When you are comfortable that it is complete, maybe you could edit the following page to include a link to your guide. I would also feel it is appropriate for you to add your disclaimer on ethics with your link.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...Area.php?AreaID=3363
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chronicle
Feb 9, 2006, 6:50 PM
Post #37 of 41
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Registered: Sep 26, 2003
Posts: 664
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The layout didn't work. The first 8 pages were fine when printed and folded. The Upper Rock City section had pages that were in the back of the guide. Group B was also scattered. Everything came back together for a while in Group C and Group E.
I used the snapshot tool in Acrobat Reader to rearrange everything in MS Word (the snapshot tool copies the selection as a picture into the clipboard). I printed, folded, and everything looks good.
I will probably make my first trip to Coopers after we are done moving back to Pittsburgh and I'm sure the guide will come in very handy.
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nowinowski
Feb 9, 2006, 7:04 PM
Post #38 of 41
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Registered: Sep 5, 2003
Posts: 134
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nice layout. If you want to actively fight the grading scale why dont you not use the v scale --> maybe b1,2,3
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sherpaboy
Feb 9, 2006, 7:28 PM
Post #39 of 41
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Registered: Mar 7, 2005
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Doh! I'll fix the pages this evening if I can. I just flipped through a printed version here too...I have some adjusting to do yet. But you can get the jist of it.
Thanks again
Mike
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microbarn
Feb 9, 2006, 7:32 PM
Post #40 of 41
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Registered: May 12, 2004
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page numbers would greatly speed up the initial printing and figuring out page flips
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