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saxfiend
Feb 7, 2006, 4:21 PM
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In reply to: It is not strange that your gym won't let you anchor down. That makes it a good gym. Anchoring the lead belayer tight to the ground is a bad bad idea. [snip] You really want to anchor down outdoors? Brian I'm skeptical of almost all your points in this post. I regularly lead in the gym and outside with women belayers who weigh considerably less than I do. I've taken some significant falls, and never noticed any difference in the force of the fall whether or not they were anchored. Nor have I ever seen any anchored belayer experience the rope run/burn that you describe. Have you? Worries about rockfall or the climber landing on you are irrelevant to the anchor/no anchor debate. Whether you're anchored or not, you shouldn't be belaying directly under the climber; and if you're not directly under the climber, your chances of getting hit are remote. The floor anchors at my gym are at least six feet out from the wall. As for not anchoring outdoors -- are you seriously going to tell me you don't clip to the anchor when you do multi-pitch? :shock: Or maybe you only do single-pitch climbing . . . I doubt there's any real need for the OP to be anchored when belaying her boyfriend, but on the other hand, it wouldn't cause any problems. JL
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puerto
Feb 7, 2006, 4:43 PM
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I'd say there's a higher probability of the much lighter unanchored belayer getting hurt by being landed on by a leader who falls before the third bolt, especially in areas where the first bolt tends to be pretty high up, than there is of an average climber being hurt by a nondynamic belay Plus you can always build some slack into your anchor system.. There's countless ways a rope can be dropped with an ATC: stinging insects, rockfall, thorns in the rope, a moment's inattention with the rope in the wrong position.. Way more likely than pulling some gigantic flake which your anchored belayer must avoid..Especially on sport Also it's much easier to hold your constantly hangdogging partner with a grigri I'd say use a grigri and anchor in, leave a little bit of slack in the anchor system..
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csproul
Feb 7, 2006, 4:46 PM
Post #53 of 64
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I think you also need to keep in mind that the belay you give should also depend on the type of climbing you are doing. I am much more likely to give a dynamic belay (on purpose) and/or not anchor when climbing steeper sport or gym routes where multiple falls are likely and are clean. Take lots of falls on sport routes and you'll appreciate a dynamic belay. On the other hand, when doing more moderate trad where the falls are not frequent or likely to be as clean, I'd rather keep less rope from running through.
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hosh
Feb 7, 2006, 5:39 PM
Post #54 of 64
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I've got at least 50 lbs on my wife. AT LEAST. I've never once worried about her belaying me. Actually, when I climb with any of my friends, I usually ask for a dynamic belay, I like softer falls. I think you should be fine. hosh.
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jt512
Feb 7, 2006, 5:43 PM
Post #55 of 64
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In reply to: There's countless ways a rope can be dropped with an ATC: stinging insects, rockfall, thorns in the rope, a moment's inattention with the rope in the wrong position.. Right, which is why the belayer should be using a grigri for sport climbing.
In reply to: Way more likely than pulling some gigantic flake which your anchored belayer must avoid..Especially on sport Wrong, which is one reason why the belayer should, in general, not be anchored for single-pitch sport climbing. Jay
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cracklover
Feb 7, 2006, 9:29 PM
Post #56 of 64
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In reply to: In reply to: There's countless ways a rope can be dropped with an ATC: stinging insects, rockfall, thorns in the rope, a moment's inattention with the rope in the wrong position.. Right, which is why the belayer should be using a grigri for sport climbing. In reply to: Way more likely than pulling some gigantic flake which your anchored belayer must avoid..Especially on sport Wrong, which is one reason why the belayer should, in general, not be anchored for single-pitch sport climbing. Jay Good grief, this is silly. Just know the conditions that apply where you are, and the pros and cons of your choices, and then make the appropriate decision. Most people in the thread seem to have devolved to comparing apples and oranges. It's red! No, it's orange! No you can eat the skin! No you can't it'll make you sick! G:roll:
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rc86
Feb 13, 2006, 5:57 PM
Post #57 of 64
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Good grief, this is silly. Just know the conditions that apply where you are, and the pros and cons of your choices, and then make the appropriate decision. Most people in the thread seem to have devolved to comparing apples and oranges. It's red! No, it's orange! No you can eat the skin! No you can't it'll make you sick! G:roll: Cracklover is right just see what its like and make a decision.
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itakealot
Feb 13, 2006, 6:00 PM
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Bad Belayers need to be "Eiger Sanctioned!"
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talons05
Feb 13, 2006, 6:58 PM
Post #59 of 64
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In reply to: There's countless ways a rope can be dropped with an ATC: stinging insects, rockfall, thorns in the rope, a moment's inattention with the rope in the wrong position... Yep, all of which can be avoided by not being a pussy or a dumb-ass. Would you drop the rope because you got stung? I think I could take some needle sticks if it meant not killing my partner. :wtf: If rockfall is an issue, wear a HELMET. If you can't focus enough to pay attention while belaying, get a prescription or get a new hobby. As far as the physics arguments, none of you are exactly right, but: :deadhorse: Cheers, A.W.
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nola_angie
Feb 14, 2006, 12:12 AM
Post #60 of 64
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In reply to: Would you drop the rope because you got stung? I think I could take some needle sticks if it meant not killing my partner. :wtf: If rockfall is an issue, wear a HELMET. If you can't focus enough to pay attention while belaying, get a prescription or get a new hobby. Gotta agree. Can't let the brake hand go, and pay attention. (easy to say, we've yet to hit a multi-pitch!) Seizure, hear attack, bear attack....sure. Stuff you can deal with? Nope. Topless chick? NO. Pantless guy? NO. I really hope who ever is on my belay won't let go because they get stung by a bee. Locking down to inject yourself with an epi pen because you are allergic to said bee sting-okay, but give a shout out first! :wink:
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unabonger
Mar 4, 2006, 4:25 PM
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In reply to: He's my freakin' boyfriend, he should know he can trust me!!! Yeah, well, as a boyfriend, I trust, but I also verify. As you've eluded too, as he gets higher on the route the issue is less serious. But note the many factors mentioned that will contribute to him pulling you up, perhaps violently- -Low rope drag (low on routes or on straight routes) -Less rope out (low on routes) -Repetitive falls. The rope needs time to contract after falls in order to reach its lowest impact force on the subsequent fall. So, imagine him cruxing out at the 4th bolt, say his feet at the bolt. He falls, you catch, maybe gently get pulled up a bit, he has a safe, gentle catch, as he should. He doesn't have a lot of rope out, and his next fall is a bit harder. You can't do much of a controlled jump because he's close enough to the ground to warrant caution. By the 3rd or 4th such fall, you might experience far different results than the first. In such a case, you may want to tie a leash to the belayer that gives you a few feet of slack to get pulled up, but keeps you from getting slammed into the wall. Even if taped glasses are uber-cool.
In reply to: even a 250 lb. person on belay can get konked unconscious by rock fall or falling gear! The acceptance of one risk, like rockfall, has little to do with how we deal with other risks that are at least partially under our control, like belay physics. UB
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dirtybiker
Mar 4, 2006, 7:31 PM
Post #62 of 64
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always anchoring my belayer and a high friction ATC saved two climbing relationships..people tend to get insulted when you hand them a grigri so a high friction ATC or and auto block type is a little better good luck!
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8flood8
Mar 4, 2006, 8:06 PM
Post #63 of 64
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tell him to belay himself if he doesn't like your belay . or he can let you lead everything and just toprope. honestly if he says he doesn't trust you to belay him, then he shouldn't let you.
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ridgeclimber
Mar 4, 2006, 8:48 PM
Post #64 of 64
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I'm very small. I sometimes belay people that outweigh me by hundred pounds. I'm still confident that I can catch people with even ATC. Like people said, anchor yourself if you need to. That being said, you sound like you are confident in your own belay skills. It seems like it's more of a problem of convincing your partner of that. As for that, I can't help you.
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