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keithdavies1
Feb 13, 2006, 10:46 PM
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When you climb at the gym are your bouldering grades the same as they are when your outside. I find that i climb much higher inside than outside. Maybe its because the mat inside is a foot deep by 3m wide by 10 m long lo
or is it becuase outsied problems tend to be more technical than overhangging inside problems which are more strength based?l
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mikej
Feb 14, 2006, 4:52 PM
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HA! They're not even close.
Indoor climbing is much easier. even if the problem is relatively the same as something outdoors, your holds outside don't have lovely taped marks and aren't bright and fluorescent. Also Ive noticed you don't have to deadpoint many holds in the gym. Everything sticks out of the walls, when a lot of features are embedded in rock, not necessarily sticking out. When i was at my strongest point in the gym, i hadn't been outside in like a month though. The next time i got outdoors was one of my worst climbing days ever. If you're gonna be a plastic puller, you have to get outside regularly too. And try not to compare the two too much.
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cadaverchris
Feb 14, 2006, 5:02 PM
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some gyms like to sandbag their indoor routes for those same reasons listed above.
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mikej
Feb 14, 2006, 5:07 PM
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ya, thats also true, one more reason you can't usually compare the two. Filthy sandbaggers.
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keithdavies1
Feb 14, 2006, 6:45 PM
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sandbaggers?
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mikej
Feb 14, 2006, 7:19 PM
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sand bagging is a stupid practice, but its when someone rates problems less than what they actually should be. Its either due to lack of experience or to trying to make someone else look bad. A lot of AZ problems are like that.
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climbsomething
Feb 14, 2006, 7:33 PM
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A lot of Phoenix climbing is just... shit bagged ;) The Phoenix gyms are also pretty generous in their grading.
The Tucson gym is definitely a sandbagger's dee-lite though. If you can climb our "10b/c" routes you're doing pretty good.
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amd618
Feb 15, 2006, 2:57 AM
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ive had similar experiences, i can own problems indoors and have trouble starting outside. up side to indoor is its a great place to learn technique imo
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dubforceone
Feb 15, 2006, 3:24 AM
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we dont rate problems at the gym where i climb....i think it makes the climbing better....
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bloodyhands
Feb 15, 2006, 3:35 AM
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mikej is right about the obviousness of indoor routes/problems .
Outside you not only have to locate the right holds, but also decide which holds to use; indoor problems rarely (if ever) have holds on the problem that aren't actually used (unless it's an easy problem and you're skipping holds). Outside you'll often find bomber and even chalked up holds that have nothing to do with the proper sequence. That's one reason why indoor climbing is an inferior substitute for the outdoors; it doesn't teach you how to read the rock, an very important skill.
As for sand bagging, sometimes it's due to the fact that people have different body sizes and strengths or were raised on sand-bagged problems. Ratings are, after all, only a ball park figure of difficulty.
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sbaclimber
Feb 15, 2006, 3:44 AM
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In reply to: some gyms like to sandbag their indoor routes for those same reasons listed above. |
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c22
Feb 15, 2006, 3:56 AM
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I actually climb harder outside... possibly a motivation thing
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rock_fencer
Feb 15, 2006, 4:42 AM
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i climb the same levels i think indoor and out but i find outdoor easier because well its rock and you can always latch on to something or smear on some small crystal. Plastic is pretty much crap - not that i dont like climbing in a gym. But i find routes outdoors where i live at least of the same grading are easier than the indoor ones.
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unrooted
Feb 15, 2006, 5:44 AM
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Climbing outside tears your fingers up, real rock hurts, therefore I climb much better inside, especcially in the Front in SLC. I've done v-4 outside, and v-6 at the front. Maybe cause I'm 6'4" and they don't know how to set harder routes without placing holds farther apart?
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bloodyhands
Feb 15, 2006, 5:56 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: some gyms like to sandbag their indoor routes for those same reasons listed above. Wouldn't sandbagging be the opposite? Aren't you assuming the gyms are giving the problems higher numbers than their difficulty would actually imply (that would at least explain why the OP can climb 'higher' inside than out)? |
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cadaverchris
Feb 15, 2006, 2:00 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: some gyms like to sandbag their indoor routes for those same reasons listed above. Wouldn't sandbagging be the opposite? Aren't you assuming the gyms are giving the problems higher numbers than their difficulty would actually imply (that would at least explain why the OP can climb 'higher' inside than out)? I believe he means that gyms sandbag routes to conter the fact that ppl climb higher rated routes inside than outside.
precisely. the gym says, "if you can climb v3 here, you can climb v3 anywhere."
and as every thread on this site concerning grades will tell you all ratings are subjective to the area. in my experiences with gyms like this- so as long as its not a big shot to your ego to only be a v3 boulder at the gym, your outdoor experiences wind up being very rewarding
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ajkclay
Feb 15, 2006, 2:35 PM
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My gym was very over-graded until recently. It was a little ridiculous, there were routes graded 23 (11c) that I was able to eliminate holds on while onsighting them! Now at that stage I was onsighting about 20-21 outdoors but most definitely not eliminating holds from them.
I know it should not bother me but it was a bit annoying as the gym rats were trumpeting about being able to climb 11c's when in actual fact they were doing routes that were more like 10b.
Things have changed a bit recently (well last time I was there - when it was raining 2 months ago) with grades now more honest.
On the difficulty difference though I think there's a few factors:
A gym route tends to be more consistent at the grade, thereby making them perhaps more pumpy, but then this is balanced by the reduction on route-finding as you know exactly where the next hold is.
Then again, while holds are harder to find outdoors you tend to have more options for feet.
They really are two different animals I think... Often I find myself taking a week or two to adjust between summer (outside) and winter (inside) climbing.
Cheers
Adam
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elepita
Feb 15, 2006, 2:59 PM
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In reply to: i climb the same levels i think indoor and out but i find outdoor easier because well its rock and you can always latch on to something or smear on some small crystal. Plastic is pretty much crap - not that i dont like climbing in a gym. But i find routes outdoors where i live at least of the same grading are easier than the indoor ones.
I agree, I have a harder time climbing gym routes than climbing outside. I climb much harder outside than inside. Plus it is so much nicer to climb rock, it has so many features that you can use. On plastic there is only one (or two) ways to climb a certain route, on real rock you have many more options. For me rock rocks! plus it is true that sometimes gyms grade routes easier to what they really are (or feel to me at least).
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shear
Feb 15, 2006, 4:26 PM
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i climb a good 3 grades LOWER inside than out. granted i use indoor as a training tool...so i rarely "project a problem" inside.
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alpinerock
Feb 15, 2006, 5:32 PM
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In reply to: Climbing outside tears your fingers up, real rock hurts, therefore I climb much better inside, especcially in the Front in SLC. I've done v-4 outside, and v-6 at the front. Maybe cause I'm 6'4" and they don't know how to set harder routes without placing holds farther apart?
the fronts actually rather featherbagged in my experiance, i wouldn't go bashing the fronts route setters though, their some of the best in the nation. Its heaven climbing their problems after coming over from the quarry. I don't think that they make their problems harder by placing the holds farther apart, i'm only 5'6" and i've flashed their V7/8's, i haven't taken the time to really work anything though so i can't compare it to my outside redpoints which are usually higher but i also put more effort into them.
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unrooted
Feb 16, 2006, 4:46 PM
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In reply to: the fronts actually rather featherbagged in my experiance, i wouldn't go bashing the fronts route setters though, their some of the best in the nation. Its heaven climbing their problems after coming over from the quarry. I don't think that they make their problems harder by placing the holds farther apart, i'm only 5'6" and i've flashed their V7/8's, i haven't taken the time to really work anything though so i can't compare it to my outside redpoints which are usually higher but i also put more effort into them.
I used to think the same as you, and i actually still like the problems in the front, but I don't think the route setting quality is still the same, it's gone downhill in the last little while.
So what do you not like about the quarry? I have never been there, but the new gym that is being put in up here (logan) is by a guy that practically worships pedersen and his route setting "skills" and is having the quarry crew come up here several weeks before opening to put up the initial routes.
(I have never met Jeff Pedersen, but I do know that he has given Trevor (the rockhaus owner) a ton of help).
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verbal
Feb 16, 2006, 5:12 PM
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The gym I climb at and a few others that I have climbed at purposely sandbag their routes. This is so that a climber doesn't climb every other day at the gym doing all the 5.11 that are really 5.10's or easier and then go to their local crag and get themselves in trouble on a route. Also I have heard people at the crag say, "there is no way this is 5.10, it should be rated 5.11+" and then they start trying to regrade all the routes at a crag.
I like the idea of if you can climb v3 here you can climb v3 anywhere. It keeps gym rats out of trouble, and ego's in check.
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nevenneve
Feb 17, 2006, 1:06 AM
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In reply to: A lot of Phoenix climbing is just... s--- bagged ;) The Phoenix gyms are also pretty generous in their grading. The Tucson gym is definitely a sandbagger's dee-lite though. If you can climb our "10b/c" routes you're doing pretty good. |
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mattamatta
Feb 17, 2006, 1:17 AM
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I actually find that I can get myself to climb a lot harder on real rock than plastic. There's just so many big holds around that small holds seem hard, where on real rock, any little rough indentation feels like a great hold sometimes, and I have an easier time coming up with creative ways to use it.
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angry
Feb 17, 2006, 1:27 AM
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Whenever I am leading my hardest outside, I'm not doing too hot at the gym.
I seem to plateau at a certain level at the gym or I'll injure a finger. I can't really improve on it so I work endurance or power there. All the while I manage to improve outside because of the work I do at the gym.
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