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wzrdgandalf
Feb 28, 2006, 11:00 PM
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The other day I started up a 5.9 in the gym. I get to the top and there is a mid 5.10 move. I know that outdoors when a route is graded, it is put at the level of the hardest move on it. When i called the manager out on the route that he had made the day before, he told me that the rule on indoor climbing is that you take the aggregate of the whole routes moves to make the routes grade. this route was sustained 5.8+ moves and then a mid 5.10 move and you average those and he got it at a 5.9. Has anyone heard of this "rule" or do any other gyms go by this?
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tradclmbr
Feb 28, 2006, 11:57 PM
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There are so many great things about this post I just had to bump it.
The topper is how much you care - exemplified by your giving shit to gym manager about putting 5.10 crux on a 5.9 route.
Ill get my indoor route setting rule book out of my closet and see if I can get you a more definatively answer to your question though.......say where did I put that damn thing?
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korntera
Mar 1, 2006, 1:07 AM
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Well first of who are you to say what a 5.10 gym move is. Have you been climbing in gyms for many years and do you have experience on other gym 5.10s. Did you try leading that gym 5.9, it might have felt like a 10+ then. Its a gym, don't worry about it. The gym I climb at in portland I can climb 11's but the gym down here in eugene I can only do a few 10+'s yet I climb 11a outside. A gym is a gym, there is no "solid 5.10"move on plastic.
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andrewbanandrew
Mar 1, 2006, 1:08 AM
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In the gym I climb at most the policy is to set routes that are of sustained difficulty at the noted grade. The reasoning behind this, as explained to me, was that it was better from a training perspective to do routes of sustained difficulty rather than say, a 5.11 that was mostly 5.9-5.10 moves with two 5.11 moves.
Then again, ratings in the gym are usually wildly inconsistent, just like ratings outdoors, because they're all completely subjective. So I think the answer here is to stop giving a shit.
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lambone
Mar 1, 2006, 4:04 AM
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In reply to: ...the policy is to set routes that are of sustained difficulty at the noted grade...
we strive for that also, mostly because I think that route which are consistently sustained are more fun. They flow better and members like them more then routes with cruxy sections. Of course that is roped routes as opposed to bouldering.
However, I think a route should be rated by it's hardest crux, not by it's average of all the moves. Otherwise they are sandbagged.
The hardest part is not "dumbing down" grades, in other words we try to keep the 10's and 11's as close to something in that range you'd climb outdoors. It's easy to start calling things 5.11 to make people feel better, but that's not reality.
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wzrdgandalf
Mar 1, 2006, 5:22 PM
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I wasnt giving the manager shit; I was asking about the reasoning behind his grading. It doesnt matter all that much to me I was just curious about the policies that other gyms use, and to see if this is a common practice.
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norskagent
Mar 1, 2006, 5:31 PM
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Gym grades are often at odds with real grades. As long as they are consistant within the gym, I don't care how they choose to rate their climbs.
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rockhound71
Mar 1, 2006, 5:47 PM
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...apples and oranges...
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mr8615
Mar 1, 2006, 5:51 PM
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...plastic and granite... (or sandstone, or limestone, or...)
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tonypurmal
Mar 1, 2006, 6:20 PM
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In my experience climbing at Planet Granite in Santa Clara they tend to grade for the hardest move of the route. They also tend to try to make sure there are several sections at the rated grade. Occasionally they'll throw in a move or section that seems harder than other climbs at that grade, but that's rare. Usually the whole climb will be misrated rather than just a section of it.
I prefer the hardest move rating system.
Tony
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midwestishell
Mar 1, 2006, 6:54 PM
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outdoor = leaves, dirt, sand, endless possibilities, etc.
indoor = cupcakes, manacured padded floors, screaming kids, someone's creativty based on their select climbing experience
Very hard to compare and I try not to.
Generally, over the course of a route I may try to give up to a half a grade difference, no more/less. That is close enough to consistency for me and allows to rest spots or cruxes as I see necessary. What seems like a 10 crux to you might not be a crux at all after a few attempts or a piece of hidden beta. Give it another try or watch some other climbers on it and see what you think. You may be right or you might learn something from it. Just go at it with an open mind and try talking to the setter directly.
Th
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rockrat_co
Mar 1, 2006, 7:30 PM
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I could almost swear that some gym routes are seriously underrated. Ive been climbing for nearly six years now, and Im determined that some climbing guru sets routes and underrates them to discourage the achievement of self-esteem. hehe, just a theory.
-rockrat_co-
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soyshadymilkman
Mar 1, 2006, 7:34 PM
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HAHAHAHA, I love you Matt, I assume this is you writing this. You're not allowed to give me sh-- until I get my knee brace off so I can show you how to do the move, haha. Just kidding, I know it's a harder move but if you think I sandbag stuff you should try climbing some of Clayton's old routes that are still up.
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wzrdgandalf
Mar 1, 2006, 7:44 PM
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AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. foiled, the knee brace made the manager resort to rockclimbing forums hahahaha. Im not trying to sh1t on your grading, just wondering about other peoples views on gym grading because i know so little about it.
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daithi
Mar 1, 2006, 8:46 PM
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In reply to: I know that outdoors when a route is graded, it is put at the level of the hardest move on it.
No they're not! How much experience do you have outdoors?
In reply to: When i called the manager out on the route that he had made the day before, he told me that the rule on indoor climbing is that you take the aggregate of the whole routes moves to make the routes grade.
Which is pretty much how they're graded outdoors, i.e. overall difficulty.
In reply to: this route was sustained 5.8+ moves and then a mid 5.10 move and you average those and he got it at a 5.9.
Sounds about right. The grading of routes by overall difficulty has been discussed lots of times of this site. Do a search.
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rockrat_co
Mar 1, 2006, 9:32 PM
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uh-oh... I feel a "how a route is graded" debate in the making....
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soyshadymilkman
Mar 1, 2006, 9:39 PM
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haha, yeah here we go. All I've got to say is get up off my boy's back Daithi. No need to hate. In my opinion the rating system is really really flawed if you're looking for an exact measure of difficulty b/c everyone's got diff technique, style, height, opinions, etc. but it does work great for giving a good idea of what you're getting into. So let's all just go climb and make up our own minds (except for me, I'll still be gimpy for another couple of weeks :cry: )
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climbtech_108
Mar 2, 2006, 5:51 PM
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The YD system is fundamentally flawed. Judging a route by the single hardest move in it is a horrible way to give a idea of the diffculty of a climb. It should (at lest in a gym enviroment) but a general level of diffculty based on the length, the quality of the grips and avaible feet, or if the route is overhung or off slope at all. I think they do a good job of judgeing routes in my gym this way.
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