|
clmbnski
Mar 4, 2006, 2:41 AM
Post #1 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 11, 2002
Posts: 85
|
Inspired by the discussion in the sliding x thread
Edit: You may want to read through the thread a bit before posting if you have never heard of the issues involved.
... I guess I screwed up the poll when I edited the topic
|
|
|
|
|
rockguide
Mar 4, 2006, 2:56 AM
Post #2 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 8, 2004
Posts: 1359
|
The cordellette system is excellent ... I usually use 19mm sling instead of 7mm cord now for strength over an edge, but still use 6 or 7mm cord on occasion.
I also use the sliding X (with two limiting knots) and many other ways of building anchors - including, occasionally tying the pieces together with rope. Toolbox, meet terrain. Terrain, this is my toolbox.
If anybody is looking for the one system that will work all the time in all situations, they would be better off looking for the Holygrail. I would join the quest, but I lost the coconuts and I cannot face the killer rabbit again.
Brian
|
|
|
|
|
moose_droppings
Mar 4, 2006, 2:59 AM
Post #3 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3371
|
Of course I'll continue to use it, different tools for different situations. There will always be a search for the holy grail, (i don't think there is one myself) and the next one will have a few hairline cracks in it too.
|
|
|
|
|
sactownclimber
Mar 4, 2006, 3:18 AM
Post #4 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2005
Posts: 216
|
I'm intrigued by the discussion in the "sliding x" forum . . . I've read about half of it so far. The cordelette is a useful tool, in spite of it's imperfections.
|
|
|
|
|
gordo
Mar 4, 2006, 3:18 AM
Post #5 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 5, 2005
Posts: 111
|
It continues to have it's place in anchors with bomber pieces and no reall need for equalization. I won't use it in a situation where the placements are not ideal. There are better solutions.
|
|
|
|
|
tattooed_climber
Mar 4, 2006, 5:46 AM
Post #6 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2003
Posts: 4838
|
cord is the most adaptable tool when used: right, safetly, smartly, etc.
:roll: trad ain't no amateur arena...last thing i want to see near me is an explosion at the spaghetti factory
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Mar 4, 2006, 5:56 AM
Post #7 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
I use the Holy Grail for all anchors.
Thank uyou.
Thankyouverymuch.
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
bloodyhands
Mar 4, 2006, 8:51 AM
Post #8 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 78
|
The cordelette, may not be the best of equalizing systems, but it is by far the simplest. I doubt it will ever go out of style.
|
|
|
|
|
keithlester
Deleted
Mar 4, 2006, 1:56 PM
Post #9 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
I have never used a cordelette, on short pitches I connect to my anchors with the climbing ropes, using half ropes this often suffices. Otherwise I supplement this with long slings, 8ft long, I usually carry 2 or 3 of these and rarely need more than one to connect up.
|
|
|
|
|
ridgeclimber
Mar 4, 2006, 2:56 PM
Post #10 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 163
|
I use almost exclusively cordellete anchors. I have never had any problems with equalization at all. It's simple and there are so many ways to use it; a second clipping point at the top shelf, for one.
|
|
|
|
|
roy_hinkley_jr
Mar 4, 2006, 4:18 PM
Post #11 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2005
Posts: 652
|
Cord-a-death works great...till it doesn't...it's a long riiiiiiiide dooooown.
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Mar 4, 2006, 4:45 PM
Post #12 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
Vesatile. Doesn't do everything perfectly, but does several things "pretty well."
It will continue to have a place on my rack, and, like everything else on the rack, used when appropriate and not used when not appropriate.
|
|
|
|
|
pbcowboy77
Mar 4, 2006, 6:17 PM
Post #13 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 9, 2002
Posts: 574
|
If you know how to use it and little tricks with it, it's great. It's simple not much thought goes into it. You can use it for other things than the anchor i.e. sling something to bail, cut it for pursiks, first aid, blah blah blah.
So why not carry one? Are you trying to savr weight? Are you gonna use the rope for the anchor and make it a bit shorter for the next pitch? Are you gonna use up sling and run out on the next pitch?
There are hundreds of diffrent ways to build an anchor, why not have every option at your side.
|
|
|
|
|
jabtocrag
Mar 4, 2006, 7:59 PM
Post #14 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 22, 2003
Posts: 476
|
In reply to: ... I usually use 19mm sling instead of 7mm cord now for strength over an edge...
Seems like overkill :wink:
|
|
|
|
|
rockguide
Mar 5, 2006, 6:00 AM
Post #15 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 8, 2004
Posts: 1359
|
In reply to: In reply to: ... I usually use 19mm sling instead of 7mm cord now for strength over an edge... Seems like overkill :wink:
I just get no slack. where is the love for paranoia? :lol: :lol: :lol:
On some terrain I find myself slinging blocks rather than tying pieces together. 19mm sling is substantially better than round cord on the rough limestone here - and almost as easy to work with. Top rope anchors that hang over edges and see abrasion over the day are also a good application for the flat tape rather than the round tape.
Multi pitch anchors ... hanging clean ... round cord is fine and easier to work with (and, in theory, the cord also helps in improvised rescue. Sorry - some guy explained to me that rock rescue is a myth in another thread ... so forget that :lol: )
Brian
|
|
|
|
|
gonzo
Mar 5, 2006, 9:10 AM
Post #16 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2001
Posts: 36
|
I use the wild country ready made cordelette. It is made of dyneema sling, I think around 22kN, so it's very thin, easy to rack up and handle and much stronger then standard perleon. Only disadvantage is that its pretty pricey.
|
|
|
|
|
rad_dog
Mar 5, 2006, 3:01 PM
Post #17 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2006
Posts: 34
|
I don't use cordolettes, but then again I'm not a fan of trad draws either. I usually just equalize anchors using the stuff I normally carry - regular shoulder length slings, quick draws, and the rope. If I'm going to be top roping I carry a 25 foot scrap of static caving rope that somebody gave me. It's so much nicer than messing up your good slings or trusting webbing over edges.
But hey, if you like that cordolette and it's working for you - go for it.
|
|
|
|
|
devkrev
Mar 5, 2006, 3:35 PM
Post #18 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 933
|
One of the major advantages that I see with a cordelette is that it keeps the rope free from the anchor. If you have a problem that requires you to rescue a stuck partner for whatever reason, it will be ALOT easy to do if the rope isn't all tied up as an integral piece of the anchor.
Thats just my opinion, though, but I'm just a noob, what do I know
dev
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Mar 5, 2006, 4:03 PM
Post #19 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
In reply to: One of the major advantages that I see with a cordelette is that it keeps the rope free from the anchor. If you have a problem that requires you to rescue a stuck partner for whatever reason, it will be ALOT easy to do if the rope isn't all tied up as an integral piece of the anchor. Thats just my opinion, though, but I'm just a noob, what do I know dev
What you don't know is the dreaded shock load of an anchor (or the belayer's pelvis) rises considerably when you don't incorporate a dynamic component into your anchor.
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
altelis
Mar 5, 2006, 4:17 PM
Post #20 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 2168
|
....and what you don't know might kill you......
|
|
|
|
|
tradrenn
Mar 5, 2006, 4:43 PM
Post #21 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 2990
|
In reply to: Cord-a-death works great...till it doesn't...it's a long riiiiiiiide dooooown.
Care to elaborate your point ?
|
|
|
|
|
scrapedape
Mar 5, 2006, 4:56 PM
Post #22 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 2392
|
In reply to: In reply to: One of the major advantages that I see with a cordelette is that it keeps the rope free from the anchor. If you have a problem that requires you to rescue a stuck partner for whatever reason, it will be ALOT easy to do if the rope isn't all tied up as an integral piece of the anchor. Thats just my opinion, though, but I'm just a noob, what do I know dev What you don't know is the dreaded shock load of an anchor (or the belayer's pelvis) rises considerably when you don't incorporate a dynamic component into your anchor. DMT
Doesn't the advantage lie in establishing an anchor with a powerpoint, whether you use a cordelette or some other method? You can clip into that powerpoint with your rope, so you have a dynamic link between you and the anchor, but can still escape the system more easily than if the climbing rope is goingto each piece in the system.
|
|
|
|
|
roy_hinkley_jr
Mar 5, 2006, 5:02 PM
Post #23 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2005
Posts: 652
|
In reply to: In reply to: Cord-a-death works great...till it doesn't...it's a long riiiiiiiide dooooown. Care to elaborate your point ?
Sure. I'll quote John Long from the other thread:
In reply to: A dozen years ago, I promoted the cordelette across the board. Testing found that it didn't work as advertised--or even close to as advertised. Unless a cordelette has perfectly equal length arms, and is attached to TWO side by side placements (like bolts), it does not function remotely as well as other systems. You should not use the cordelette to connect 3 pieces in ANY configuration. In fact, if you are trying to rig up anything but two side by side pieces, there is no such thing as a "well made cordelette."
They were never safe to begin with but, based on the poll results so far, the lemmings keep on trusting in divine intervention.
|
|
|
|
|
clmbnski
Mar 5, 2006, 5:49 PM
Post #24 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 11, 2002
Posts: 85
|
I will elaborate some more for those not familiar.
Testing conducted recently by John Long et al. has found that the cordelette fails to equalize the forces when it is loaded. This was somewhat known but I guess never really investigated thoroughly.
The problem is due to (let me know if I am missing something) the different length arms in the cordelette stretching at different lengths and therefore loading the shortest arm piece the most. Also, the fixed power point does not adjust for loading from an unexpected direction.
I would like to see the data for how bad the equilization really is and the way the drop tests were conducted. Hopefully that goes into the new book or a paper is written up on the testing.
So there has been attempts at creating new anchor systems: see sliding x thread.
Personally, I will keep using the cordelette unless something is invented that is similarly quick, versitile, and relatively simple unless I am faced with a situation where the pieces in the anchor are weak and equalization is manditory for strength.
Chris
|
|
|
|
|
akicebum
Mar 5, 2006, 6:10 PM
Post #25 of 91
(13718 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 2, 2003
Posts: 258
|
For all haters, here are a few questions:
1: With a Weballete, Trango instant anchor, or Metolius PAS can you make an effective prussik?
2: Can you make a V-thread out of any other anchor system?
3: With the exception of the weballete, can you make knotted chocks out of any other anchor system?
I just got back from a trip with the ultimate "gear guy." He was ranting and raving about his PAS. I think they work great myself, but in the mountains or on longer routes, I am more comfortable with my cord because it is more versatile when things don't go as planned.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
