|
crankenstein
Mar 8, 2006, 7:54 PM
Post #26 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 20, 2002
Posts: 164
|
Lot of good advice offered so far. One other thing that I learned many years ago is to carry the proper weather gear especially if you are in the mountains. A warm lightweight shell and light gloves could very well mean the difference between succes and failure/misery during unexpected afternoon storms in the mountains. Proper gear can lead to surviving in comfort rather than barely surviving in misery regarless of if you are going up or down.
|
|
|
|
|
dru
Mar 8, 2006, 8:03 PM
Post #27 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 17, 2003
Posts: 35
|
What would Chuck Norris do? Probably roundhouse kick those damn raindrops back into the cloud they came from. So either you make like Chuck or you haul up the portaledge, open the fly and wait it out.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Mar 8, 2006, 8:25 PM
Post #28 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
Actually its going to SNOW like a mofo this weekend at Lake Tahoe. It seems there are folks who forget that March is winter, despite the green grass and flowers down in the valley. Also, Sierra climbers get in the habit of forgetting a summer time maxim our Rockies counterparts all too frequently are reminded of... one should aim to be at the top of the peak/climb by noon or so. This often necessitates getting out of bed well before sun up, on the rock at first light, to beat the very predictible afternoon buildup. Yet year after year we read the tales of those caught by surprise by something that is in fact as regular as can be. If you make a habit of topping out on mountain routes at 3 pm sooner or later you're going to have vibrating ax and hair standing on end tales yourselves... you hope. Cheers! DMT
|
|
|
|
|
erin
Mar 8, 2006, 8:36 PM
Post #29 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 27, 2005
Posts: 149
|
If it's just raining...be careful, but there's no need to bail. If there's lightning, get the hell out of there...whichever way is the the fastest...be it bailing or finishing the climb. However, be careful in all you do. Also, just check the weather report before you go, and you won't have to worry about it.
|
|
|
|
|
rgold
Mar 8, 2006, 8:52 PM
Post #30 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 3, 2002
Posts: 1804
|
Although all the good advice has already been given, I don't think re-emphasizing two points will hurt. 1. If there is any chance of sustained rain combined with an escape that will last more than, say, an hour, then having a rain shell on will make an enormous difference in your physical (and hence mental) condition. You can get hypothermic fast in moderate temperatures if you are soaked. A rain shell won't spare you the fate of the Japanese party on El Cap, but it will make either your retreat or your ascent in merely wet conditions a lot more bearable, and therefore safer. Nowadays there are shells that weigh just a few ounces and are easily carried on the harness. (It is important that both climbers have their shells with them. Belaying at the top of a pitch when the deluge happens, with your partner fighting her way up to you wearing her shell and carrying yours, means you'll be drenched by the time your shell arrives.) I've learned these things the hard way and wouldn't wish those experiences on anyone. 2. In some cases, escaping upwards is the way to go and a certain amount of aid climbing is the way to get there. Practice improvised aid climbing on a mellow crag somewhere before you have to do it in full conditions.
|
|
|
|
|
aimeerose
Mar 8, 2006, 11:30 PM
Post #31 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 574
|
Seriously though, I would just like to bring up the point of how important it is to check the weather forecast before starting up a multi-pitch climb. Seems obvious, but I just had a friend start up Black Orpheus (a 11ish pitch climb in Red Rocks, with a heinous descent- much downclimbing on slabs) with a 70% chance of rain. This was in December and even in Las Vegas it gets cold at night. Needless to say, it started raining, but they didn't turn back. They climbed 3 more pitches in a drizzle, which brought them to the top of the 10th pitch. So, then they decided to top it out. Here's an except from the email about what happened next:
In reply to: we reach the top of the climb and get pelted with hail and ice and furious wind as the sky immediately completely blacked out. We intended to walk off - Remember, the walk off is no easy task, and now those difficult slabs are wet AND it's dark.....
In reply to: but decided to rappel after we found some slings. At this point - I was willing to leave a good chunk of my rack if need be. We were about to be blown off the top of the cliff! - I was soaked. After 5 or 6 rappels - we reached some slabs and it seemed like we were really lost until I realized that I had been on those slabs before even though I had no idea how we could have gotten so far off route to be where we were. strangely there was an abandoned rope in the anchors we found and decided to use it since there wasn't anybody else around. Well...we found out that a couple had rapped the "solar slab gulley" we were in during the worst conditions and had to abandon their rope to escape the waterfall as quickly as possible. After a couple raps I was shocked to hear other voices and even more shocked to see a tent up on some rocks where a well-prepared couple had been forced to bivy. They knew we were probably near hypothermic so they crawled into one sleeping bag and offered us their other bag. After several hours - the uncontrollable shivering stopped and the discomfort of the situation created the impetus to head back down the mountain. A few more rappels and we were down in time to sit on a rock and watch the sun come up. Beautiful. I know this was long, but I just felt it was a good learning experience for those of you out there caught in the rain. I feel like my friend had no idea how close to death she was. I think if they hadn't have found that couple and the tent (how fortuitous), they would have been in big trouble.
|
|
|
|
|
golsen
Mar 9, 2006, 12:34 AM
Post #32 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 1, 2005
Posts: 361
|
You got some good responses. It is highly dependant upon the situation. Here are a couple situations I have run into. Once in the Black Canyon on the Scenic Cruise, my partner and I had completed all the crux pitches, we were right before a 5.9+ pitch that involved smearing with some manky old bolts for pro. We were in shorts and it started hailing and raining, lightning and thunder, all hell was breaking loose. Being in shorts maybe was not the brightest thing, but oh well. Luckily it was one of those short lived thunderstorms and after about 45 minutes we retreated upwards. Retreating upwards in the Black is the preferred choice. The wet rock definitely added to the scare factor on that pitch and we finished in the dark. Another time, we were attempting the Nose in a Day. While I was leading the Great Roof pitch a storm came in. We knew a big storm was coming but we thought it was due the next day. Our situation was that it was 430 pm, I had on every stitch of clothes (and still shivering) and it was snowing lightly. We had 1000 feet of difficult climbing remaining and had not ever done the descent off El Cap before. I knew it would be dark when we hit the top. The BEST scenario I came up with was that we would get to the top, in a snow storm, in the dark and we did not know the descent. I kind of figured that we would be bivvying up there without gear. That was the best scenario I came up. The alternative was of course to rapp down 2000 feet, and we had not ever done that either. It was not an easy decision but bailing went smooth as silk. Over the next couple days about 18 inches of snow fell on top of El Cap. A party behind us bivvied under the Great Roof (where it was dry) for 36 hours before bailing. Bailing safely is a very important skill to have, one to be proud of. As others have said, in the grand scheme of things, gear is cheap. Use your head about the right decision and realize that the best climbers have all bailed on something at some point in time. If the route you are attempting is long, you had better have some idea how to get off the climb, and the tools required. I try to use a 5mm cord for my chalkbag waist belt that can double as a prusik if needed as well as carrying another. I also carry some tied slings to back up manky webbing. On that rapp off of the Nose we had to back up a lot of rapp stations up high. I was running out of tied runners and was almost ready to start chopping the haul line and leaving it. Those new sewn dyneema slings are great but they are useless for retreats. This was before many folks started using cordallette’s, which would also serve that purpose. Oh yes, a knife. Bring one of those on a long route. I would hate to see what it was like to gnaw through a climbing rope to cut some off…
|
|
|
|
|
sspssp
Mar 9, 2006, 12:34 AM
Post #33 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 1731
|
In reply to: Nowadays there are shells that weigh just a few ounces and are easily carried on the harness. (It is important that both climbers have their shells with them. Belaying at the top of a pitch when the deluge happens, with your partner fighting her way up to you wearing her shell and carrying yours, means you'll be drenched by the time your shell arrives.) I've learned these things the hard way and wouldn't wish those experiences on anyone. A light weight shell (the few ounce ones) over top a t-shirt (even a synthetic one) doesn't do as much to keep you warm as you might expect (or at least as I might have expected). I got caught in a thunderstorm and I wasn't drenched, but I was slightly wet by the time I got the shell on (over a light synthetic t-shirt). The shell stayed firmly plastered to my arms (wet t-shirt effect) and shoulders. The rain was cold enough I lost a lot of heat through the shell even though I "wasn't getting wet." Was I better than no shell? Yes, but I came to the conclusion that, for the weight, I would have been better off with just a poly pro shirt/fleece (even a very light weight one) even though it would have gotten drenched. It was a big wake up call. There was, fortunately, almost no wind, and we rapped down to an overhang. Without those two facts, it would have gotten very grim fast (the day started sunny with a predicted high of 90--welcome to the valley).
|
|
|
|
|
rocketsocks
Mar 9, 2006, 4:56 AM
Post #34 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 11, 2006
Posts: 179
|
Might I suggest the "10 essentials"? Being prepared really can make a huge difference, and it doesn't mean hauling a lot of extra weight either, if you can haul a rope and rack up the pitch, you can bring along enough emergency gear to allow you to survive unexpected conditions.
|
|
|
|
|
rgold
Mar 9, 2006, 5:22 AM
Post #35 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 3, 2002
Posts: 1804
|
In reply to: A light weight shell (the few ounce ones) over top a t-shirt (even a synthetic one) doesn't do as much to keep you warm as you might expect (or at least as I might have expected). I got caught in a thunderstorm and I wasn't drenched, but I was slightly wet by the time I got the shell on (over a light synthetic t-shirt). The shell stayed firmly plastered to my arms (wet t-shirt effect) and shoulders. The rain was cold enough I lost a lot of heat through the shell even though I "wasn't getting wet." Was I better than no shell? Yes, but I came to the conclusion that, for the weight, I would have been better off with just a poly pro shirt/fleece (even a very light weight one) even though it would have gotten drenched. I suppose we could argue about this forever, but here's my take: First and formost, you've got to get the shell on before what's underneath gets wet. That's the main reason to have it with you rather than in a pack that your partner might be carrying. Once the weather starts to look threatening, the best bet is to put the shell on before it starts storming, even if you get a little overheated. But it is true that the shell isn't going to provide much in the way of insulation. Second, I think a light fleece soaked by freezing rain will be worse than the shell---a lot worse as time goes on, and in any case will be much more likely to end up in a pack a rope length away when you need it. Of course, the best thing once the weather turns bad is to have the fleece in the pack and the shell on your harness, but that may be more than you want to carry on a lowland crag.
|
|
|
|
|
rocketsocks
Mar 9, 2006, 5:35 AM
Post #36 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 11, 2006
Posts: 179
|
In reply to: Second, I think a light fleece soaked by freezing rain will be worse than the shell---a lot worse as time goes on, and in any case will be much more likely to end up in a pack a rope length away when you need it. Of course, the best thing once the weather turns bad is to have the fleece in the pack and the shell on your harness, but that may be more than you want to carry on a lowland crag. Also, you can improvise insulation easier than you can improvise waterproofness. In an emergency you can stuff your waterproof shell with leaves, grass, pine needles, or similar (preferably dry). Might not be the most appealing thing to do, but it works.
|
|
|
|
|
addiroids
Mar 9, 2006, 6:08 AM
Post #37 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 11, 2001
Posts: 1046
|
What are you doing out of the gym???
|
|
|
|
|
golsen
Mar 9, 2006, 3:33 PM
Post #38 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 1, 2005
Posts: 361
|
In reply to: What are you doing out of the gym??? Addiroids, I think it sounds like he wants to experience the outside by getting hot, thirsty, wet, dirty, scraped up, scared shitless and cold. Thats the problem with most gyms, all of those fun things are virtually non-existant!
|
|
|
|
|
ambler
Mar 9, 2006, 3:52 PM
Post #39 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 27, 2002
Posts: 1690
|
What I wonder is this: How on earth did new climbers figure out the answer to such questions as "What should I do if it rains?", before there were Internet forums to ask? 8^)
|
|
|
|
|
epoch
Moderator
Mar 9, 2006, 3:52 PM
Post #40 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 32163
|
In reply to: In reply to: What are you doing out of the gym??? Addiroids, I think it sounds like he wants to experience the outside by getting hot, thirsty, wet, dirty, scraped up, scared s--- and cold. Thats the problem with most gyms, all of those fun things are virtually non-existant! All too true. They should simulate condtions so that gym-bound nO0bs can endure the harshness of real conditions without having to leave the safety of the city. My fav: The Big Wall Sleepover... Portaledges, poop tubes, and canned baked beans...
|
|
|
|
|
robdotcalm
Mar 9, 2006, 4:05 PM
Post #41 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2002
Posts: 1027
|
A couple of things not mentioned so far is that before you get on a multi-pitch climb is to practice escape skills, e.g., rappelling on a single line, getting past a knot on the rappel line, prusiking up a rope, aid climbing. And maybe first soaking your hands in a bucket of ice water so you can do these things while your fingers will barely move! Looking at the weather reports and starting early has been mentioned. Not bad advice, but in the mountains storms will come in despite all prognostications. I was battered at 11:00 on Lumpy Ridge in Rocky Mt. NP on what was supposed to be a clear day with maybe some late afternoon thundershowers. It was a calm, clear day until 10:59. I mostly use half-ropes on multi-pitch climbs to make rappelling off quicker and, in a real emergency, to have 120 meters of rope for rappel. Cheers, Rob.calm _______________________________________________________ ‘Tis better to have trad and failed then not to have trad at all. P.S. After getting caught in that storm I mentioned above, I stopped using self-locking carabineers. With cold, frozen fingers it made getting the rope into the rappel device and then onto the carabineer more difficult than it would have been using a manual locking carabineer.
|
|
|
|
|
pastprime
Mar 9, 2006, 4:17 PM
Post #42 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 7, 2005
Posts: 251
|
I resoundingly second the idea of carrying a lightweight waterproof shell. If you get in the habit of having one there any time you are more than a few minutes from the car, there will be times you are so glad to have it that it is more than worth the trouble of having carrying it around all those times you didn't. I like to have one that's large and loose, so there's room for insulation underneath. TIP FOR EXTRA WARMTH: Wrap the rope loosely in coils over your shoulders and diagonally across your chest and back, alternating sides, so it covers as much of your upper body as possible. You'll be amazed how warm it is, all the more so if you have a roomy shell over the outside of it.
|
|
|
|
|
iltripp
Mar 9, 2006, 5:35 PM
Post #43 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 6, 2003
Posts: 1607
|
In reply to: What I wonder is this: How on earth did new climbers figure out the answer to such questions as "What should I do if it rains?", before there were Internet forums to ask? 8^) Trial and error?
|
|
|
|
|
stemmingway
Mar 9, 2006, 6:03 PM
Post #44 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 2
|
Once you know you're going to get rained on, find a ledge which may involve rapping or going up just a bit higher. Be sure you're with you partner. Misery loves company. Then wait out those brief (sometimes drenching) showers with the following: -Large, heavy duty garbage bag. It's light and compact and will keep you dry. -Sweater and hat NO COTTON -Food Often, the rain will pass, the sun comes out and off you go. I've never had any luck with those rainshells keeping me dry. Plus they're so bulky.
|
|
|
|
|
sspssp
Mar 9, 2006, 7:42 PM
Post #45 of 45
(3635 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 1731
|
In reply to: In reply to: A light weight shell (the few ounce ones) over top a t-shirt (even a synthetic one) doesn't do as much to keep you warm as you might expect (or at least as I might have expected).... I suppose we could argue about this forever, but here's my take: First and formost, you've got to get the shell on before what's underneath gets wet. That's the main reason to have it with you rather than in a pack that your partner might be carrying. Once the weather starts to look threatening, the best bet is to put the shell on before it starts storming, even if you get a little overheated. But it is true that the shell isn't going to provide much in the way of insulation. Second, I think a light fleece soaked by freezing rain will be worse than the shell---a lot worse as time goes on, and in any case will be much more likely to end up in a pack a rope length away when you need it. Of course, the best thing once the weather turns bad is to have the fleece in the pack and the shell on your harness, but that may be more than you want to carry on a lowland crag. Getting it on before you get any wet at all, would have helped a lot. [We didn't have a very good view of the sky. I was on a long, high concentration lead when I was suddenly surprised it was raining.] I should have mentioned also that I had one of the 3~4 ounce, minimalist jobbies that compact to the size of a baseball. Even a "light weight" shell like my Precip doesn't plaster onto the skin like that did. However, I would rather have had an "all-seaon" poly pro long sleeve shirt than the shell. If there had been a lot of wind, which there wasn't, that might have tipped it back to the shell. But my main point, is that the ultra light weight shells over a t-shirt in a long hard cold rain... still pretty grim.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|