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woodse
Mar 17, 2006, 9:26 PM
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3-16-2006
The weather was beautiful, perfect climbing temps, good friends all around. We hiked to the base of a popular buttress and started sorting through our gear. It was then that my friend Mike realized he had left his harness in the parking lot of another buttress the previous day. Mike headed back to the other buttress, sure that his harness would either be hanging somewhere or a note would be posted letting him know that someone had grabbed it for him. Neither were true. Mike came back to where the rest of us were at. He was obviously bummed but more amazed that someone had taken the harness, his day for all intents and purposes was over. A few minutes later a group came around the corner telling us that just last night a group had left a 2-way radio on one of the kiosk boards so their friends could get in contact with them and find their camping spot. Attached to the radio was a note asking people to please leave the radio, well the radio disappeared but the batteries were left behind. The group I was with had been climbing in the creek for nearly 20 years and couldn't believe the stuff that was happening. As if the day wasn't bad enough we watched in horror as a big duelly diesel truck pulled up and then realizing the parking was full off roaded to the southeast of the Supercrack lot and began unloading materials to put the finishing touches on the new self pay kiosk. Thats right, the days of free climbing in the creek are over. As I gazed out at the 35 cars parked in every available spot I could sense the disappointment and even a hint of anger in my friends voices. Just last week I posted to a forum concerning the creek and recent vandalism. I was quick to defend the climbing community but now I realize that I was wrong. It is the climbers stealing belongings and defacing the rock. It is the climbers littering the crag with cig butts and wads of tape. Yesterday was an eye-opener for me. A VERY sad eye-opener. So to my fellow climbers please remember:
Gear that is left in a parking lot, tent, vehicle, etc... is not booty.
Your name carved in stone should only occur when your dead and be in the form of a headstone.
Pick up after yourself, nobody likes seeing trash at their crags.
Please learn respect and then preach it to others.
woodsE
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alpine_monk
Mar 17, 2006, 9:32 PM
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word son. we need more folks like you. it seems these days everyone is more worried about egos than the magical places that allow us to hatch them.
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superbum
Mar 17, 2006, 10:30 PM
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also, it would be great if people realized that there is MORE to the creek than Supercrack Buttress. I was there for over a month last spring and went to supercrack Buttress/donnelly canyon only twice. Head there, warm up, tick the classics, then GO somewhere else. impact will be spread out, you will see and climb amazing lines, and you will actually be getting your money's worth out of that thick glossy guidebook you just bought.
the creek is TOO big for there to be full parking lots. Find another buttress if the lot is full. trust me, you will find at least one good crack to climb...
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overlord
Mar 17, 2006, 10:32 PM
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In reply to: Attached to the radio was a note asking people to please leave the radio, well the radio disappeared but the batteries were left behind.
that is just amazing. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
and whats the concept behind the self-pay kiosk??
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paganmonkeyboy
Mar 17, 2006, 10:55 PM
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damn...very sad indeed... as more and more people discover climbing and the use becomes heavier and heavier, this trend can only continue unless we all (and not just us freaks on rc.com) understand what is at stake and take a stand to make things right...
but - to a certain extent this is more a symptom than the actual problem, if you know what I mean...its not that there are so many more climbers, its that people aren't taught to respect the outdoors and each other's experiences - its all 'I me me mine'...
when a climber litters, I know climbing has become more mainstream than I care to admit...used to be we were a special breed, more in tune with nature, more respectful, etc yada yada....now any hack can and will throw shoes on and make us all look like ass...
ymmv...
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josephgdawson
Mar 17, 2006, 10:55 PM
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If that is your definition of sad, you are leading a pretty happy life. Be thankful.
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organic
Mar 17, 2006, 11:04 PM
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In reply to: 3-16-2006 The weather was beautiful, perfect climbing temps, good friends all around. We hiked to the base of a popular buttress and started sorting through our gear. It was then that my friend Mike realized he had left his harness in the parking lot of another buttress the previous day. Mike headed back to the other buttress, sure that his harness would either be hanging somewhere or a note would be posted letting him know that someone had grabbed it for him. Neither were true. Mike came back to where the rest of us were at. He was obviously bummed but more amazed that someone had taken the harness, his day for all intents and purposes was over. A few minutes later a group came around the corner telling us that just last night a group had left a 2-way radio on one of the kiosk boards so their friends could get in contact with them and find their camping spot. Attached to the radio was a note asking people to please leave the radio, well the radio disappeared but the batteries were left behind. The group I was with had been climbing in the creek for nearly 20 years and couldn't believe the stuff that was happening. As if the day wasn't bad enough we watched in horror as a big duelly diesel truck pulled up and then realizing the parking was full off roaded to the southeast of the Supercrack lot and began unloading materials to put the finishing touches on the new self pay kiosk. Thats right, the days of free climbing in the creek are over. As I gazed out at the 35 cars parked in every available spot I could sense the disappointment and even a hint of anger in my friends voices. Just last week I posted to a forum concerning the creek and recent vandalism. I was quick to defend the climbing community but now I realize that I was wrong. It is the climbers stealing belongings and defacing the rock. It is the climbers littering the crag with cig butts and wads of tape. Yesterday was an eye-opener for me. A VERY sad eye-opener. So to my fellow climbers please remember: Gear that is left in a parking lot, tent, vehicle, etc... is not booty. Your name carved in stone should only occur when your dead and be in the form of a headstone. Pick up after yourself, nobody likes seeing trash at their crags. Please learn respect and then preach it to others. woodsE
I hardly think losing a harness can be called stealing. As for the missing radio, seems kind of rediculous that someone would steal it and leave the batteries please tell me how that makes any sense. Learn how to make a webbing harness and sack it up.
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flamer
Mar 18, 2006, 12:00 AM
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In reply to: [I hardly think losing a harness can be called stealing. As for the missing radio, seems kind of rediculous that someone would steal it and leave the batteries please tell me how that makes any sense. Learn how to make a webbing harness and sack it up.
How about you go fuck yourself?
You missed the point entirely. Must ahve never spent anytime in the creek...or anywhere like it.
Jack ass.
josh
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fleshwater
Mar 18, 2006, 12:24 AM
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No doubt man, the stuff is gone and wouldn't used to have been. That sucks, case closed.
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atg200
Mar 18, 2006, 12:34 AM
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a few years ago at the creek a friend of mine lent some cams to some folks he didn't know who were short a few. they took off with the cams, and didn't realize it until they got back to salt lake. since they had no way of knowing who he was short of seeing him again, they immediately turned around, drove back to the creek, and returned them. that is what indian creek used to be like, and it wasn't too long ago.
the nice thing is that most of the creek is still like that(get away from battle of the bulge/donelly/supercrack!), and pretty much all the rest of the desert is like that. indian creek is unique only for its concentration of routes - but there is an awful lot of good splitter wingate out there that few people ever touch. go exploring!
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desertclimber
Mar 18, 2006, 2:48 AM
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Honesty, Respect, Integrity.
We need more...
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8flood8
Mar 18, 2006, 3:53 AM
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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imagine i could put a trouphy and pile of shit in one thread.
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8flood8
Mar 18, 2006, 6:13 AM
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is it me or are the shits and trophys broken?
i can see the ones awarded to me, but i can't see the ones i've awarded, other than in my profile
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overlord
Mar 18, 2006, 6:57 AM
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In reply to: is it me or are the s--- and trophys broken? i can see the ones awarded to me, but i can't see the ones i've awarded, other than in my profile
i think thats the way its supposed to be.
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weschrist
Mar 18, 2006, 7:39 AM
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Ya'll crack me up with this "back in the day" vs. "these days people just don't have the respect" shit.
The shit happens all the time... has happened all the time... the only difference is back in the day the community was small enough that peeps would get their shit kicked if they messed with someone else's gear... simply because there weren't 100+ people at the crag... not because of respect.
Respectful people will act respectable... the chances of finding respectable people decreases with the chance of getting caught... get used to it.
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superbum
Mar 18, 2006, 8:19 AM
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In reply to: You should be happy that someone picked up the harness. Most abandoned gear is just left to rot by most people. You even said it yourself: In reply to: Pick up after yourself, nobody likes seeing trash at their crags. Quit whining. Suck it up. That harness was trash, just like the candy wrapper and tape wad. He left it there and if anything he should be penalized for littering. A non climber would see it as trash just like you would see a beer can as trash. If for some reason your partner did get his harness back that would be a stroke of luck.
A harness in good condition near the base of a climbing route is NOT trash. jeeze. Hope you never go bouldering or else you will fill up the back of your truck w/ "trash" in a few minutes! In the Owens River Gorge in Bishop, there has been the same Red Chile climbing shoe on a rock near the trail for awhile. While a disrespectful gonad will see trash, another thoughtful human will see a climbing shoe that obviously is missing a foot!
So, my point is...stop toproping Incredible Handcrack, pile in your buddy's van and get lost. Once lost, climb the nearest crack. There will be no one nearby to pick up your "Trash..."
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woodse
Mar 18, 2006, 11:17 AM
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In reply to: You should be happy that someone picked up the harness. Most abandoned gear is just left to rot by most people. You even said it yourself: In reply to: Pick up after yourself, nobody likes seeing trash at their crags. Quit whining. Suck it up. That harness was trash, just like the candy wrapper and tape wad. He left it there and if anything he should be penalized for littering. A non climber would see it as trash just like you would see a beer can as trash. If for some reason your partner did get his harness back that would be a stroke of luck.
It's the people like you that make the situation sad. A functional harness left at the base of a climb is hardly a cig butt left on the ground or a wad of tape stuffed in a crack. My friend receiving his harness back from another person that cared enough about somone other than themself would hardly be a stroke of luck but rather an act of kindness and caring. Have you ever had the opportunity to return someones lost belongings to them and see the smile that crosses their face from ear to ear? It's one of the most satisfying feelings in all the world when you see them holding in their hands the thing they thought was gone for good. I can only hope that someday you experience the community that exists in Indian Creek nearly year round. Save a few holdiay weekends, spring break and the hot unforgiving summer, there are people there that live such honest simple and respectful lives that the rest of us can only strive to attain. Suck it up you say? I have sucked it up.....I've sucked in the dry desert air many a time while doing my best to fight up an obscure crack that wasn't quite "my size"! And for the rest of you who have posted negative responses to my orginal post, I'll never give up hope that you can change and see the desert that I have been so fortunate to see. I'll never give up hope that you too will get high from the feeling of returning a lost article to its owner or picking up a piece of trash either mistakenly or deliberately left behind. I'll never give up hope that we all will one day see the benefit of leaving no trace and minimizing our environmental impact rather than "sucking it up" and accepting it as the way it has to be. I'm not perfect and either is my friend who left behind some gear but you can be damned sure that I would be the luckiest guy in the world if I was the one to see his smile when he had it back in hands, with his trust and love of the climbing community right there too.
woodsE
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camhead
Mar 18, 2006, 1:33 PM
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Sad.
This situation at the Creek is a microcosm of what is happening in the Canyon Country as a whole.
I notice that most of the naysayers and "suck it up" people in this thread are from the eastern half of the U.S. 'Nuff said.
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prezwoodz
Mar 18, 2006, 3:50 PM
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I admire your replies woodse.
I also think replies such as "suck it up" and "get used to it" are things that unnecessary and are part of the problem. I purposely leave my car unlocked or things lying around that may be of value to steal. Why? I guess I am just testing the human race. I don't want to lock everything I own. I don't want to not be able to accidental leave something somewhere and have it disappear forever. Sure I have had this happen plenty of times and I don't as much get mad as I get sad at the fact that it happened. And I don't care if 1000 people steal something and never give it back. I am going to be that one who does.
It doesn't always have to happen. We don't have to "get used to it" and your just allowing it to be a bigger problem by thinking so.
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angry
Mar 18, 2006, 3:59 PM
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A year ago, I drove off with the new guidebook on my car. It fell off and I never found it. I didn't expect to though. The walkie talkie and the harness are quite different. This is thievery.
I am in full, 100% support of the fee. So many people are coming and trashing the place and it's becoming increasingly obvious that the majority (or loud minority) aren't going to take it upon themselves to help clean it up. Maybe they'll be able to do something constructive with the money.
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iamcolinslack
Mar 18, 2006, 4:03 PM
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I hear you woods, Leave no Trace, Or simply just leave.
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holdplease2
Mar 18, 2006, 4:22 PM
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If you can't have compassion for a fellow climber that made a mistake, then you are not a fellow climber.
A harness left at the base is clearly a Mistake.
Maybe you take the harness, incase Bro left town, and to LNT but at least you put a note a Kiosk or post up online.
If I was going to leave "trash" at the base of the climb, it would be some of you guys, hopefully within minutes of meeting you.
-Kate.
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holdplease2
Mar 18, 2006, 4:26 PM
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Double post...sorry
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shanz
Mar 18, 2006, 4:46 PM
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leave not trace is what makes you a climber and taking a harness thats not yours is theft regardless if the climber misplaced it.
Having respect for others and your environment is what being a climber is!
Just cause you have the gear and can get up a climb doesnt make you a climber. Remember being a climber is a lifestyle not a freaking sport!
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