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climbsomething
Apr 4, 2006, 10:39 PM
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This may sound cheesy, or not, I dunno, but there are lots of DIY photo book programs/sites out there. You download the software, which is really easy to work with, then insert the photos and captions, upload back to the company, and they print it and send it to you within a week or so. Prices aren't screamin' cheap but they're pretty reasonable and the quality is good too. I've used MyPublisher (mypublisher.com) several times to create photo books, for class projects and for fun. It's kinda time consuming but not hard by any means.
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socalbolter
Apr 4, 2006, 10:47 PM
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It's a great idea. If any of my photos catch your eye, i'd gladly have them included.
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porcelainsunset
Apr 4, 2006, 10:50 PM
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Another Vote in favor of giving procedes to the access fund :D
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tradrenn
Apr 5, 2006, 1:03 AM
Post #29 of 51
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I will not buy one, I rather get a cam #5.
Stop waisting trees and just simply please donate some money here and there.
Good day to you all.
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tslater
Apr 5, 2006, 3:08 AM
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I think a high end publisher would be best. We need a site administrator on board, it'd be easier that way. This could really be done, we just need some more momentum and the right people.
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tradrenn
Apr 5, 2006, 3:29 AM
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In reply to: I think a high end publisher would be best. We need a site administrator on board, it'd be easier that way. This could really be done, we just need some more momentum and the right people.
I don't mean to pick on you in any way, but let me ask you one Q.
What are you doing besides this thread to get your book published ?
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zao479
Apr 5, 2006, 4:28 AM
Post #32 of 51
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WoW! an original idea on rc.com. Nice. put me down for one.
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tslater
Apr 5, 2006, 3:13 PM
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I guess RC.COM isn't a company, nor does it have a president, or a phone number we can call. Doing this book without being able to identify it as the BEST OF RC.COM PHOTOS, would be kind of pointless. There'd be no recognition. Can anybody deeply connected to this site clarify how we could get permission to use the name?
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j_ung
Apr 5, 2006, 3:30 PM
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Hi guys. I love this idea, but I'm NOT the fella who can make the call on this. It definitely falls under the job description of "Owner," and that ain't me. But keep talking and I'll make sure the right people see this thread.
FYI: we started that whole calendar project with very good intentions and all we succeeded in doing was paving the road a little closer to hell. The job quickly became far too huge for any of us to handle... and now we're discussing a whole book! :lol: Not that I'm against it, because, like i said, I'm in favor. I just don't want anybody's hopes to be too high.
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tarzan420
Apr 5, 2006, 3:32 PM
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Not trying to rain on your parade, but given the lack of success on the calendar project(s), it seems like trying to to a book is very risky at best. Perhaps you should try to do a calendar first - if you could do a RC.com calendar sucessfully for a few years, it would seem to indicate that a book might be successful.
As far as your questions go, PM ddt - if he doesn't have the answers, he should be able to point you in the right direction.
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tslater
Apr 5, 2006, 5:06 PM
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Can you share specifically what was hard about the calendar. I mean, I make them every year (granted, not a large production) and they're pretty easy. Was it hard to agree, was it hard to get permission, financing, etc? What was hard?
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phaedrus
Apr 5, 2006, 5:32 PM
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phaedrus moved this thread from General to Suggestions, Questions & Feedback..
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popol
Apr 5, 2006, 6:14 PM
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No words, but actions. If you donate my part to charity (proven), and get me a free book, you can use all the pictures I ever submitted to this site.
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tslater
Apr 5, 2006, 6:53 PM
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ha ha, very noble of you, but if we have 500 photos in the book, then we'd be giving away 500 books. That's not a wise idea. But men, women, children, and animals would look up to you.
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j_ung
Apr 5, 2006, 7:21 PM
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In reply to: Was it hard to agree, was it hard to get permission, financing, etc?
Yes. :lol:
It was hard to agree on how to compensate photogs, how many calendars we should print and which shots should be included. We tried to get sponsors to foot the printing bill in exchange for ad space, but couldn't find many to agree to it. Actually, permission to use photos was starting to seem like it would be the easiest part.
Speaking for myself, it was also hard to commit the time to work on it. :oops:
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popol
Apr 5, 2006, 7:46 PM
Post #42 of 51
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In reply to: ha ha, very noble of you, but if we have 500 photos in the book, then we'd be giving away 500 books. That's not a wise idea. But men, women, children, and animals would look up to you.
ok, than I'll stick to
In reply to: If you donate my part to charity (proven)
.....
8^)
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climbs4fun
Moderator
Apr 5, 2006, 8:03 PM
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The reason this most likely wouldn't happen are the same reasons the calendar hasn't happened.
1) Somebody (me at the time) has to lay out the thing. Not a big deal really, except that I have THREE jobs.
2) The photographers have to have the images in a format suitable for print. Not all do. In fact, most don't.
3) Printing costs for a calendar would have been upwards of $10k. A book will be considerably more. This cost has to be paid UP FRONT.
4) Somebody has to receive them, figure out who has ordered them and then ship them out to the people that have ordered them. This is a full-time endeavor on it's own. Our management staff consists of 7 people. We are spread out across three continents. There is no office. There is no grand staff to this place. And we all have other jobs.
It's a great – FANTASTIC – idea, but not practical.
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tslater
Apr 5, 2006, 8:17 PM
Post #44 of 51
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1) Layout - ANSWER: I'll do the layout.
2) The photographers have to have the images in a format suitable for print. Not all do. In fact, most don't. ANSWER: You'll need the original JPG or slide. Then you turn those into TIFF's. Most photograhers do, unless they are idiots. And if they don't, then they are no longer candidates for the book.
3) Printing costs for a calendar would have been upwards of $10k. A book will be considerably more. This cost has to be paid UP FRONT.
ANSWER: The publisher who is doing my guidebook paid all costs up front. Of course, he'll be making the most money off it, as it should be. Someone out there has money, and can double it by taking this on as an investment. You just need to know the right people. We have a huge resource here on this site.
4) Somebody has to receive them, figure out who has ordered them and then ship them out to the people that have ordered them. This is a full-time endeavor on it's own. Our management staff consists of 7 people. We are spread out across three continents. There is no office. There is no grand staff to this place. And we all have other jobs. ANSWER: That is what a publisher gets paid to do. They distribute.
So far I don't see any real hurdles.
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tradrenn
Apr 5, 2006, 10:33 PM
Post #45 of 51
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In reply to: 1) Layout - ANSWER: I'll do the layout. 2) The photographers have to have the images in a format suitable for print. Not all do. In fact, most don't. ANSWER: You'll need the original JPG or slide. Then you turn those into TIFF's. Most photograhers do, unless they are idiots. And if they don't, then they are no longer candidates for the book. 3) Printing costs for a calendar would have been upwards of $10k. A book will be considerably more. This cost has to be paid UP FRONT. ANSWER: The publisher who is doing my guidebook paid all costs up front. Of course, he'll be making the most money off it, as it should be. Someone out there has money, and can double it by taking this on as an investment. You just need to know the right people. We have a huge resource here on this site. 4) Somebody has to receive them, figure out who has ordered them and then ship them out to the people that have ordered them. This is a full-time endeavor on it's own. Our management staff consists of 7 people. We are spread out across three continents. There is no office. There is no grand staff to this place. And we all have other jobs. ANSWER: That is what a publisher gets paid to do. They distribute. So far I don't see any real hurdles.
Dude: You make it look so easy, I'm impressed.
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porcelainsunset
Apr 6, 2006, 12:04 AM
Post #46 of 51
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As far as selecting photo's, contacting the Photographers, getting either a negative or high res JPG, and other paper pushing work, sign me up. Hell, I'll even try and sell the book to local outdoor stores, I've worked for three of them! So, If you are looking for any volunteers for the book, please let me know, I would be happy to help in any way that I can. I don't have any professional photo experience, but I do have professional office experience. If there is anything that I can do, please let me know. I think that this is a great idea, and all we need is enough confidence to push through this and get it done. To me, those hurdles do not seem to be to significant either. Lets do this.
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macblaze
Apr 6, 2006, 4:00 AM
Post #47 of 51
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In reply to: 1) Layout - ANSWER: I'll do the layout. 2) The photographers have to have the images in a format suitable for print. Not all do. In fact, most don't. ANSWER: You'll need the original JPG or slide. Then you turn those into TIFF's. Most photograhers do, unless they are idiots. And if they don't, then they are no longer candidates for the book. 3) Printing costs for a calendar would have been upwards of $10k. A book will be considerably more. This cost has to be paid UP FRONT. ANSWER: The publisher who is doing my guidebook paid all costs up front. Of course, he'll be making the most money off it, as it should be. Someone out there has money, and can double it by taking this on as an investment. You just need to know the right people. We have a huge resource here on this site. 4) Somebody has to receive them, figure out who has ordered them and then ship them out to the people that have ordered them. This is a full-time endeavor on it's own. Our management staff consists of 7 people. We are spread out across three continents. There is no office. There is no grand staff to this place. And we all have other jobs. ANSWER: That is what a publisher gets paid to do. They distribute. So far I don't see any real hurdles.
Egad... as one who makes his living publishing books I'm ashamed I'm not a millonaire!
1. Layout... Any monkey with a pc can "layout a book" but would you want to buy it? There is a reason that book design is both an art and a profession.
2. JPEGS are a lossy format. converting them to tiff won't help. For a picture book of high quality images (I'm assuming roughly 8.5" x 11") you would need roughly 2500 pixels by 3000 pixels (or 18 meg) files. A D70 or equivalent will get ya that otherwise you will have to scan originals. Trust me on this, just cause it looks good online or in a slide show doesn't mean it will hold up to being blown up 1000% and print on glossy paper.
Do we really want a crappy looking picture book?
3. So you are going to find a publisher? If so, you give up the rights to donate the proceeds other than the potential 10% (or less) royalty. And no freebees, no say in price, no control over distribution. As for doubling your money...
256 page, 8.5 x 11, full colour, soft cover, sold for about $30 and we print 5000 copies... lets say $40 k. distribution and warehousing ... oh maybe another $10-12 k (mail ain't cheap). If it's a traditional publisher, then they will have to offer at least 40% off to retailers and maybe another 10% to salesmen. Now subtract the cost of promotions and the 10% royalty we are hoping to get and you've got very little left.
Maybe $10k return on a $40+ initial investment and there is no guarantee all the books will sell. We could save by not selling through traditional outlets like bookstores etc. but direct mail marketing has a very low success rate and a major risk as you have no idea how well or poorly sales will be so it is impossible to accurately judge the print run...
Nothing like a warehouse full of unsold books to really drag a project into the red.
4. The publisher doesn't "get paid" to do anything. They buy the rights to your book and try and make money off of it...period.
Now I'm not really trying to rain on your parade and the project might actually be workable with realistic expectations but for gawd sake don't simplify a process that's been around for hundreds of years and still only made a very few companies a success. It's like saying I can go trad climbing tomorrow cause I took a course and bought a set of nuts... sure I can do it but he odds of crashing and burning are pretty high.
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cantclimbforsht
Apr 6, 2006, 4:43 AM
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I know there are websites where you can design a t-shirt and set a price for it. Anyone can buy it; a certain base price goes to the company, and anything over that goes to the designer. There must be something out there that will do a similar thing for a calendar at least. Maybe even a company that does that for books.
Sorry I dont actually know the names of any of these companies, but maybe someone out there knows of one that will do calendars/books.
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edge
Apr 7, 2006, 10:48 PM
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tslater,
Foremostly; the bottom line (as I see it) is that right now the website is undergoing a management change which I believe is for the better. The betterment of the site remains to be seen, but I personally believe in it, and trying to pit-bull this project through right now is basically like asking us all to pass a voluntary kidney stone. In other words, in ain't happening. That should be reason enough to let this go, however:
2ND, I have yet to find a guidebook that is within light years visually of a legitimate "coffee table book". Guidebooks, calendars, etc all have different bindings, paper weight, layouts, page counts, editing, verbiage, etc, etc, ad nauseum. I have been directly involved with 9 annual auction catalogs with under 50 pages, spiral bound, which costs close to $20K, and yes, we have shopped around. Our organization is always in the red in regards to this modest effort, which we narrowly recoup with direct sales and commissions from over $100K worth of fine furniture.
Threely (yes, I know that is not a word, but that is how I am feeling mid-rant), why should anyone in their right mind buy a book of pictures that they can bookmark on line? I would rather support the professionals, who will all tell you that they lose money in the endeavor. I once met a guy who took exceptional photos over the last 3 decades, who has a framed letter from Ansel Adams commending him for his efforts. He told me that "the book cost him close to $75 K to get produced, but that Ansel's response more than made up for the $60 K shortfall." Talk about making lemonade when life hands you a shitpile....
D) Please list all coffee table books produced by any of the major climbing magazines. I mean these people already have the staff, the photogs, the publishing companies to fulfill the task, and yet they don't. I wonder why that is? Even sad attempts at chalkboard entertainment like "Pete Takeda's Wild Tales", or whatteverthehellitis, eventually get dumped at ABS comps alongside the guidebooks to Climbing in Iowa.
Cinque: I am turning off my ability to view PMs from you. Unlike other staff, I am taking a pre-emptive strike and prefer to argue this in public. Please note, however, that I am in the middle of a large job that means that I can only check this thread once a day, and probably won't after this post. I have stated my opinion, and really, you need to give it up.
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maculated
Apr 10, 2006, 5:12 AM
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Okay Tom, what exactly are you getting out of this deal?
I seem to remember trying to organize a grass-roots effort for a complete guidebook and trying to include you rather than go over your head, but then you magically getting your publisher to reprint right after I'd started the effort, going behind my back, and when caught, citing your son as the validation for taking away the possiblity of the first community-constructed guide book.
As someone who has a long history connected to this site, I'd be a little more than worried about you organizing an effort like this that you supposedly did not benefit from, even if it were doable (which, in my experience as a past administrator of this site tells me is not).
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