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Has anyone climbed the Tooth of Time?
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teak


Apr 5, 2006, 12:01 PM
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Has anyone climbed the Tooth of Time?
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Anyone? Have you even heard of any climbs. I've heard bits and pieces of epics that occurred but don't know if any of it's true.


chossmonkey


Apr 5, 2006, 12:19 PM
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Is that the one on the Boy Scout camp down in New Mexico?


sausalito


Apr 5, 2006, 12:20 PM
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at philmont scout ranch in New Mexico? I dont think anyone has done it in several years but I am pretty sure someone climbed it in the mid 80s. I am pretty sure climbing is either not allowed or tightly monitored there.... but you may be talking about a different place so who knows...


sausalito


Apr 5, 2006, 12:21 PM
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in new mexico? I think someone climbed it in the early 80s but I dont think climbing is allowed there anymore.


Partner csgambill


Apr 5, 2006, 12:46 PM
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Which Tooth of Time? I only know of one near Cimmaron NM in the Philmot Scout Ranch.

http://pages.prodigy.net/...ooth%20of%20time.jpg

oops meant to post this a while ago before the other posts, got busy with work.


teak


Apr 5, 2006, 12:50 PM
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Yep...that's the only Tooth of Time I know of. My guess is that lovely face is at least 1600' tall.


craftedpacket


Apr 5, 2006, 1:01 PM
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Thats an interesting piece of rock. I climb in New Mexico quite often, live in texas. Would be interested in checking that at as well.


spinney


Apr 5, 2006, 1:10 PM
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I hiked the Tooth in the early 90s when I was in Philmont for a Boy Scout Training Program. Since it's located on Boy Scout property, I would think that access would be an issue. That is, unless you showed up in uniform...


Partner csgambill


Apr 5, 2006, 1:15 PM
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I was there back in '94. I have the topo (not a climbing topo) at home, so I can check the height of the face. Maybe we can start lobbying the BSA for access.


craftedpacket


Apr 5, 2006, 1:32 PM
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It would be interesting to find out the height of that face. Anyone know what type of rock it is? I wouldnt think the boyscouts would be that stingy of their land. Even if you had to pay a small fee for access and sign a waivor of some sort it would be worth it.


curtis_g


Apr 5, 2006, 2:16 PM
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ive hiked the backside like, boulder scrambling, twice

i don't think that the scouts would allow climbing
they are really protective of their land and are very
VERY safety concerned. I'm not sure if a waiver would
even do the trick. ive spent a lot of time in the program
and just recently aged out and my first instinct is like
to not even condier it because doing anything like
multi-pitch climbing isnt even considered with the scouts.

but that doesn't mean i wouldn't love to climb it, or see
other people climb it. man i think it would be awesome


craftedpacket


Apr 5, 2006, 2:22 PM
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I have nothing against the boy scouts. But I have been to a few established parks that boyscouts frequent in the area...and I have yet to see anything that resembled strong saftey concerns. Its amazing what scary situations a few boy scout dads and a rope can create. "sure that single 1" rotten tree branch is great to rap off of". I am sure I have just had some bad experiences and most leaders are trained and very safe...I just havent seen that around here.

I can understand them being protective of their land...I guess we could all go join the NM boyscouts (with the secret intention of climbing that of course :p)


curtis_g


Apr 5, 2006, 3:20 PM
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its true that scout troops are usually pretty dangerous, but council and national offices are horribly strict with safety. individual troops? well yu can just imagine 3 adults and 20 kids hanging out by a cliff...
well all the leaders are trained to stay safe at least, most of the time.


minor note: philmont is BSA national property but you only trek at philmont through their office and a schedule they set that you pick from.othervise, youre not suposed to be there, otherwise id go climb it, heck, im still a registered leader. haha


chossmonkey


Apr 5, 2006, 4:10 PM
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Yeah that is the one I was thinking of.

A friend of mine told me about it in high school. He hiked to the top of it when he was down there for Eagle Scouts.

I think climbing it is pretty off limits. I don't know if he told me that or if I heard that from someone else.

It's in my old edition of Tim Toula's Rock 'n Road.

In reply to:
The Tooth of Time, 9003', is a stunning 500'(?) granite face and a selection of pinnacles towering above the Philmont Ranch. Assorted outcroppings in nearby vicinity to the south. Permission must be granted to climb or must be active scout (or active trespasser). Routes done as early as 1972 by Davis, Wright, and Barrett.


curtis_g


Apr 5, 2006, 4:26 PM
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In reply to:
Yeah that is the one I was thinking of.

A friend of mine told me about it in high school. He hiked to the top of it when he was down there for Eagle Scouts.

I think climbing it is pretty off limits. I don't know if he told me that or if I heard that from someone else.

It's in my old edition of Tim Toula's Rock 'n Road.

In reply to:
The Tooth of Time, 9003', is a stunning 500'(?) granite face and a selection of pinnacles towering above the Philmont Ranch. Assorted outcroppings in nearby vicinity to the south. Permission must be granted to climb or must be active scout (or active trespasser). Routes done as early as 1972 by Davis, Wright, and Barrett.

another minor note: he might have been an eagle scout but thats not like an organization its a rank you achievce. he was down there with the scouts. maybe he was an eagle scout. sorry but it's a pet peeve.

i would say its about a 500' face. the photos taken of that face of it are from a base camp or plains area just under 6000 feet and like you said that peak is at 9003' i have a topo on the wall in my room, i can probably tell you from. h/o

it was just over 5 contour lines at it's highest point. 80ft per line, thats somewhere around but more than 400 feet. i'd say the 500' mark is accurate.

how old is that 'old' edition of Rock 'n Road?


pendereki


Apr 5, 2006, 4:36 PM
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Yes, The Tooth of Time has been climbed. I know of several ascents in the early '90's and somewhere around here I have a climbing topo of some of the routes. I did a quick look and could not find it. I think I recall about 600+ feet of climbing in the 5.8 or 5.9 range
I looked at that rock every day for three months and then passed on the chance to sneak up it in favor of the Petit Grepon. To the best of my knowlege, climbing is not allowed on the Tooth, and I did want to return to the ranch.

CM


dvd


Apr 5, 2006, 4:45 PM
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short answer:: you cant climb the tooth

Quick credituals
Ive spent the last two summers and the last fall waking up to stare at the crack on that face.

What I gathered, hearsay, Phil rumors...
1. be prepared to be arrested for trespassing should you attempt
2. its a 5.8-5.9, with tricky nut placements
3. Dennis Jackson (Rock Climbing, New Mexico and Texas) has tried to get permission to take parties up the face but has been denied. (thats from him)
4. we estimated the face being closer to 1500-1800', (base is at 6 it tops out at 9)
5. Climbing is strickly regulated to the climbing camps, (The Cow, Cito and Miners)
6. my boss liked me and I still couldnt get permission to climb the tooth

For any other Phil Staffers
IWTGBTP


curtis_g


Apr 5, 2006, 10:45 PM
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In reply to:
short answer:: you cant climb the tooth

Quick credituals
Ive spent the last two summers and the last fall waking up to stare at the crack on that face.

What I gathered, hearsay, Phil rumors...
1. be prepared to be arrested for trespassing should you attempt
2. its a 5.8-5.9, with tricky nut placements
3. Dennis Jackson (Rock Climbing, New Mexico and Texas) has tried to get permission to take parties up the face but has been denied. (thats from him)
4. we estimated the face being closer to 1500-1800', (base is at 6 it tops out at 9)
5. Climbing is strickly regulated to the climbing camps, (The Cow, Cito and Miners)
6. my boss liked me and I still couldnt get permission to climb the tooth

For any other Phil Staffers
IWTGBTP

im pretty sure the vegitation ends and the face lands itself to only about 600 feet of technical climbing.

haven't climbed at cito. liked dean cow better than miner's tho. and better than harlan too. haha, i got kicked by a burro during the race. ouch.
the cow is my favorite camp on the entire ranch. unstaffed comanche peak is a tough competitor tho. so beautiful.

"Philmont here's to thee, souting's paradise, out in God's country, tonight."

IWTGBBBBBBBBBBBBTP!
Heck, I looked at the arrowhead last time I left...I think its law that I return.


mtnfr34k


Apr 5, 2006, 11:29 PM
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Yep, the Tooth is closed to climbing. Absolutely.

With that semi-official statement, here's what I remember.
There is a topo for a multi-pitch, 10a route. Classic strategy was to wear Philmont staff shirts for the last pitch, so that if you encountered any hikers on the summit you could claim to be "surveying raptor nesting".
The route was poached at least three times that I'm aware of from 1987-1993.

But that's just my memory...


craftedpacket


Apr 6, 2006, 7:27 AM
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Are there hikers there year round? Anyone up for a little trespassing?

http://www.railfanusa.com/...rs/pics/98phil_5.jpg


musicman1586


Apr 6, 2006, 8:00 AM
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Are the known routes all free climbing or is it some free and some aid?


craftedpacket


Apr 6, 2006, 8:04 AM
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Hey musicman...have you climbed at salado (sp?) in the San Antone area? Can you tell me where that is?


ccard257


Apr 6, 2006, 8:33 AM
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A little more info on climbing the tooth-

In addition to being on private property, its protected as a national landmark or something like that so you'll get prosecuted for that too if you get caught

i know two people who did it a few summers ago and said it was three long pitches of 5.7-5.8

there are several established routes, some with aid (5.11 A3) some with out. Some of these routes also have some fixed pro, but i hear that the gear is being cleaned early this summer.


hillbillywannabe


Apr 6, 2006, 8:53 AM
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"high adventure" boyscout staffers are so funny stuff like "we are surveying for raptors" happens all the time and its hilarious. one time a leader told us that this tree bark made a tea and the tea would give you a "buzz" so some of these guys were like whoa i feel it... and the smarter people in our group just kinda laughed at them... too bad that troop was over run with spoiled city kids that want to go camping in the mall... =(


musicman1586


Apr 6, 2006, 9:07 AM
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In reply to:
Hey musicman...have you climbed at salado (sp?) in the San Antone area? Can you tell me where that is?

Can't say I have, Red Bluff is pretty much the only area I know for climbing in San Antonio, all bouldering. Heard of several other places and there's a number listed in the route database, but don't know anyone that's actually ever been out to them.

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