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slinging cam hooks
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crackboy


Apr 12, 2006, 4:24 PM
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slinging cam hooks
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Did a back search but didn't find anything.

whats the recomended way to sling cam hooks?

Seems like threading it so the hook is in the loop is better than doing it liek a cliffhanger


tagaustatoppen


Apr 12, 2006, 4:36 PM
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Re: slinging cam hooks [In reply to]
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http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=28683

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=28684

Edited to add the 2nd pic


Partner holdplease2


Apr 12, 2006, 4:45 PM
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Great photos...

Also, be sure to sling them short...just an inch or so of loop.

You can see that the nylon also rubs on the rock. Its a good idea to check this periodically, and check the tails of the knot, as well.

-Kate.


tradclmbr


Apr 12, 2006, 4:48 PM
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The way the are slung in the photos (like you would sling a cliff-hanger/talon) does generate a favorable inward pull when you weight it. Wears quicker, but definately the way to go. Agree with hold2.... sling short to step higher


Partner holdplease2


Apr 12, 2006, 5:04 PM
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Re: slinging cam hooks [In reply to]
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Also, when using them, as the photog has them positioned, if you needed one of the cam hooks that is on the biner of the weighted hook for the next placement, you would not be able to free the hook without reversing the move.

Remove one from the biner, then use it, so that the others are available for use later.

Also, racking them all on one biner, as with your other hooks, is probably not a good idea. If you drop them all, bad news.

This is probably fairly obvious, but I thought I'd mention it.

-Kate.


tradclmbr


Apr 12, 2006, 5:22 PM
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Good point! I realized the folly of racking all on 1 biner when I dropped our only set two pitches above mammoth on our way to the Shield! One of many factors (excuses) that led to our bailing


tagaustatoppen


Apr 12, 2006, 6:21 PM
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In reply to:
Remove one from the biner, then use it, so that the others are available for use later.
that was being cleaned and on top rope so it didn't really matter much.

In reply to:
Also, racking them all on one biner, as with your other hooks, is probably not a good idea. If you drop them all, bad news
you just have 2 sets of each one set on one crab and set on the other


Partner heiko


Apr 13, 2006, 6:21 AM
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Disclaimer: I'm the TOTAL n00b (read: never did it) when it comes to aid climbing and the related advanced placements like cam hooks etc.

I was just wondering how strong these hook placements are and if they are/would be acceptable for use in an anchor system. My thought was this: if you aid up one if these thin seams depicted here, where and how else would you anchor?

Hm.. sorry again if this question is incredibly stupid... ;)

Cheers,
H.


tradclmbr


Apr 13, 2006, 6:52 AM
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Heiko,

Im sure there is some hardcore stud who belays off a cam hook, but for the rest of us mortals two other options usual present themselves. 1. On trade routes (which I have a tendancy not to wander off), most/many belays at the top of a thin seam would have a bolted belay or belay would occur at a spot that took reasonable gear (even the crack in the photo could take an offset alien and some offset brass HBs

If it truly was an unbelievable thin seam, out comes the hammer. While cam hooks are great for speed and clean aid objectives. I dont think many would build a belay out of them. Though - Ive heard of/see photos of RURP belays! :shock: There is a great photo in Yosemite Climber of the look on Dale Bard's face when he shows up at one somewhere on el cap/.


Partner holdplease2


Apr 13, 2006, 6:55 AM
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Hi Heiko:

Not an incredibly stupid question, far as I can see. But there are a few answers to it:

1) If you are incredibly badass or perhaps have limited will to live, you might integrate a hook like this into an anchor system...however, its not the generall thing done because these hooks are best when weighted statically in a downward position...if they shift, they can go. But they seem pretty strong. In certain clean aid situations, a cam hook might be stronger than a micronut or cam...others may have experience with this.


2) The crack is thin, but not terribly so. While today's cams and nuts might not be super strong, some can work in a crack this thin. For those willing to nail, pitons could also be used. Lost Arrow pitons are from a quarter inch to less than 1/2 inch thick, and knifeblades are, essentially, like knifeblades. These can be bomber in bomber rock.

3) There are thinner and shallower cracks than this that have been used as anchor many times. Tiny pitons, called RURPs (Realized Ultimate Reality Pitons) are only about 1/2 inch long and thin as knifeblades. One legendary bigwall belay used only these...

4) On most popular walls, with cracks this thin, and most cracks, you will find a few bolts at the belay.

Hope this helps,

-Kate.


Partner kimgraves


Apr 13, 2006, 7:01 AM
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In reply to:
I was just wondering how strong these hook placements are and if they are/would be acceptable for use in an anchor system. My thought was this: if you aid up one if these thin seams depicted here, where and how else would you anchor?

Hi Heiko,

Cam hooks (and other hooks) are body weight only pro. You don't want to fall on them. The way a "cam hook" works is that your body weight cams the hook against the sides of the crack allowing it to support your weight. When you take your body weight off of it it's loose again.

Setting up anchors in thin seams depends upon where you are and the prevailing ethic of the area. In well traveled areas the belays would most likely be bolted. In alpine situations you might well use pins for the belay. Creative use of stoppers can also give you adequate anchors.

Best Kim


spyork


Apr 13, 2006, 10:45 AM
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Dumb question maybe, is that 11/16" nylon webbing in your pics? What webbing is generally acceptable? Would I want to stay with heftier webbing instead of say 1/2", because as you point out the webbing gets chafed.

Steve


spyork


Apr 13, 2006, 10:45 AM
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Dumb question maybe, is that 11/16" nylon webbing in your pics? What webbing is generally acceptable? Would I want to stay with heftier webbing instead of say 1/2", because as you point out the webbing gets chafed.

Steve


tagaustatoppen


Apr 13, 2006, 10:51 AM
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http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=28909 These are the way to go if you want something to go in scars. make sure the springs are out!

In reply to:
holdplease2
4) On most popular walls, with cracks this thin, and most cracks, you will find a few bolts at the belay.
Just about any wall you choose will have either bolts or rivets.

In reply to:
holdplease2
2) The crack is thin, but not terribly so. While today's cams and nuts might not be super strong, some can work in a crack this thin. For those willing to nail, pitons could also be used. Lost Arrow pitons are from a quarter inch to less than 1/2 inch thick, and knifeblades are, essentially, like knifeblades. These can be bomber in bomber rock.

this was taken in an area were you cant pin anymore. I would discourage pins unless you really really think you are going to die.


tagaustatoppen


Apr 13, 2006, 10:54 AM
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In reply to:
spyork
Dumb question maybe, is that 11/16" nylon webbing in your pics? What webbing is generally acceptable? Would I want to stay with heftier webbing instead of say 1/2", because as you point out the webbing gets chafed.

Steve


I believe they are with 1/2 nylon. I will have to look at it.


tagaustatoppen


Apr 13, 2006, 10:58 AM
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In reply to:
spyork
Dumb question maybe, is that 11/16" nylon webbing in your pics? What webbing is generally acceptable? Would I want to stay with heftier webbing instead of say 1/2", because as you point out the webbing gets chafed.

Steve

They are defently 1/2.


Partner holdplease2


Apr 13, 2006, 11:16 AM
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I like to use the heaftiest webbing possible, as sometimes cam hooks and other hooks can be left as pro. You can use some needlenose pliers if you have trouble getting 1/2 inch webbing through some of your other hooks.

-Kate.


Partner euroford


Apr 13, 2006, 2:47 PM
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i've managed to get 9/16" tubular nylon through all of my hooks. though i'd have no problem whatsoever with 1/2".


Partner heiko


Apr 13, 2006, 2:56 PM
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tradclmbr and holdplease, thx for your replies. :)


stymingersfink


Apr 13, 2006, 4:52 PM
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In reply to:
I like to use the heaftiest webbing possible, as sometimes cam hooks and other hooks can be left as pro. You can use some needlenose pliers if you have trouble getting 1/2 inch webbing through some of your other hooks.

-Kate.

Personally, unless using a Captain Hook (which i don't own but have heard it's rated as fall protection), I would have to recommend against leaving any hooks behind as pro. Here's why:


I don't have (but should) a picture of the cliffhanger that Hollyclimber fell onto when a c-head popped. It was the piece she had just moved off of, but when she fell the length of her daisy onto the hook, it opened right up and she continued falling for a bit. 'Course, now her hook was ruined beyond use so what's the benefit of that...?

Myself beginning up the short seam off the anchor to begin P15 on Zodiac: I was leep-frogging the leeper med. width cam-hooks. I had a poor placement in a pin-scar when it shifted and let go - too bad I had already begun to move up on it.

I took a fall onto my Fish Super-Daisy (like a 6'-er) rolling down the slab. The leeper cam-hook caught the fall (lucky me--I hadn't put a piece in yet and the pendulum off the anchor would have been a heinous cheese-grater slab-rub) with only minor tweeking of it's geometry.

I still use that cam-hook... I love reminding myself to avoid stupidity each time I use it.

My point?

Hooks as fall-pro is like the pull-out method for birth control. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't.

In either case you'll either be lucky, dead or a parent.


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