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tradrenn


Apr 18, 2006, 8:09 PM
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8^)


Partner brent_e


Apr 18, 2006, 8:53 PM
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Re: Anti-zipper, with picks [In reply to]
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Hi Tradrenn,
I will get around your question by asking why you wouldn't just use a shorter sling in this situation? It looks like you can get away with a shoulder length there.

Best

Brent


tarzan420


Apr 18, 2006, 9:01 PM
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Re: Anti-zipper, with picks [In reply to]
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I'd use that length sling, but only tie one clove:
clip one end of the sling into one piece
use both strands to tie a clove to the other piece
clip into the end of the sling


catbird_seat


Apr 19, 2006, 10:44 AM
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Re: Anti-zipper, with picks [In reply to]
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You were correct to want to shorten the sling. In order to have the "anti-zipper" effect, the rope has to be pulled in close to the rock so that there is a straight line through the pieces above.

The way you shortened your sling is fine, although as was mentioned, you could have just used a single length sling. There is some triaxial loading in this case, but the loads are not likely to be large as this placement is pretty much there for one purpose, to change the direction of the rope. You should get another piece in right away. If triaxial loading concerns you, you can tie the sling as the other poster mentioned, that is clip the lower piece and then tie a clove with both strands on the upper piece.

Yet another way of doing it is to clip the lower piece, clip both strands through the upper biner and then take the end around THROUGH the two strands and back again through the biner. It is quicker than a clove hitch and there is enough friction that it both holds the lower piece and prevents the force multiplication on the upper piece due to the pulley effect.


crotch


Apr 19, 2006, 11:10 AM
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Re: Anti-zipper, with picks [In reply to]
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If you attach the rope-end biner to the sling with a clove-hitch you could adjust it to whatever length you like.

Another option would be to tie an overhand on a bight and clip the biner in to the short loop formed inside the knot.


petsfed


Apr 19, 2006, 11:41 AM
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Re: Anti-zipper, with picks [In reply to]
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Yeah, given the configuration under which the crab would be loaded in three directions, vs the configuration that occurs during a fall, cross loading shouldn't be an issue.


Partner hosh


Apr 19, 2006, 11:51 AM
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Re: Anti-zipper, with picks [In reply to]
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Well, If you really insist on using the longer sling, but still don't want to cross load the biner, why don't you place the secondary bight of the sling on the other side of the clove hitch on the top biner? That way, it will pull against the clove hitch and not cross load the biner. Any one who understood what I was getting at want to post pics?

hosh.


billcoe_


Apr 19, 2006, 12:51 PM
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As slow as I am, I'm surprised I'm the first person to suggest just slamming a cam in there to be done with it and avoiding the whole clusterfrickage.


chossmonkey


Apr 19, 2006, 1:04 PM
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Re: Anti-zipper, with picks [In reply to]
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You got me all excited when you put "picks" in the title. I thought it was going to be about ice climbing. :x




I really wouldn't worry about the tri-axial loading in this case because the loads from the rope being pulled out shouldn't be even close to breaking the biner.

Using a shorter sling and avoiding this scenario would probably be optimal though.

A lot of the time you can get the two nuts close enough that you can clip both with the same biner and eliminate the sling as a connector.


jeremy11


Apr 19, 2006, 1:22 PM
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or just dont use giant pear biners - plain old anything should be fine and might help reduce tri loading.
personally, I'd stuff in a cam and go if possible, or use a shorter sling


Partner hosh


Apr 19, 2006, 1:44 PM
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If you placed a bolt next to the crack, I think that would eliminate the slingage problem (but you may still want to equlize it). Bolts are pretty bomber, so long as you're only putting body weight on them. ;)

hosh.


tradrenn


Apr 19, 2006, 4:47 PM
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:lol:


Partner climbinginchico


Apr 19, 2006, 5:02 PM
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Re: Anti-zipper, with picks [In reply to]
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Here's what I do:

1. Clip into bottom piece with 24" sling.
2. Pull through upper piece, and tie off with a locking girth hitch, which will hold tension between the two pieces super well.
3. Clip rope into loose end of the sling, extending if need be for rope drag.

I like the locking girth hitch because it's easier to adjust for tension than a clove, and is just as strong. Hopefully someone can take pictures, because I'm far away from any real rock here. :cry:


thegroundhurts


Apr 20, 2006, 9:29 AM
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first picture seemed ok, in terms of loading, the three way loading is occuring only when you pull out, or up, break strength is only of concern when you fall on it as the last piece, taking the overwhelming majority of the weight, in which case the sling would load the 'biner downward, both slings in the same direction.


Partner j_ung


Apr 20, 2006, 10:16 AM
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Since you intend for this piece only to prevent a zipper, I don't think it'll ever come close to feeling the force necessary to break it if this happens:

http://i60.photobucket.com/...RRG2006/100_0583.jpg

But since you do need it shorter, my first thought is the overhand idea from crotch.


chossmonkey


Apr 20, 2006, 11:47 AM
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In reply to:
Closup pick of top biner

http://i60.photobucket.com/...RRG2006/100_0695.jpg


I'd say that is a MAJOR clusterfuk. The chances of accidentally screwing up one of the twists or anything else seems like it would be much higher than the chances of tri-loading the biner to anywhere close to the point of failure.



In reply to:
P.S. Sorry to disappoint you Nathan, I don't like ice at all.

Not even to keep your beer cold? :lol:

6 months ago I thought the same thing.


Partner brent_e


Apr 20, 2006, 12:43 PM
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Re: Anti-zipper, with picks [In reply to]
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In reply to:

Not even to keep your beer cold? :lol:

6 months ago I thought the same thing.


I think we should fix him, Nate. :D

this whole situation seems to be easily fixable by just wasting a cam in the same placement. OR, doubling the sling throught the biners on the nuts and then clove hitching (i would have to show a picture, i think, which i can't now).


Brent


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