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petsfed
Apr 19, 2006, 7:41 AM
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Way back at the beginning of my climbing career, my dad gave me all of his hexes, amongst other things. I had read Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills cover to cover by this point, so I set out immediately to resling them, so I knew the history of the slings on them. While doing so, my dad pointed out that he only put the knot inside when the hex was so big that it wouldn't interfere with pulling the sling it out entirely. He reasoned that a slight inconvenience in placing a hex (something easily dealt with when I'm in such a position to be placing them) is far outweighed by the ease with which I could remove the sling to be used in an emergency situation. I kept that in mind and didn't keep the knots inside the hexes. How about you folks? Inside or outside? Why?
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buckyllama
Apr 19, 2006, 1:19 PM
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If I'm reading this correctly, he only put the knot inside when the size of the knot was significantly smaller than the inside diameter of the hex, such that you could get at the knot easily to remove it?
Personally I put the knot inside on any hex I can fit it. I'm not above using hammers to jam it in there. (only a slight bit of hyperbole there) Given the amt of nylon in various forms we tend to carry around on a trad climbs I can't see the couple of hexes where it's a pain to shove the knot inside being a limiting factor on gear in an emergency. If it's a real emergency then just clip it like a sling and leave the hex on it.
"Hang on buddy, just keep breathing ... I've almost got this knot untied"
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hammerhead
Apr 19, 2006, 1:40 PM
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I put the knot inside and I slide 1" webbing up the sling. It keeps gear much neater when racked on your harness.
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chossmonkey
Apr 19, 2006, 2:12 PM
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If the knot fits I put it inside. I don't think I would be able to untie the knots in mine even if I wanted too. The idea of taking off the slings to use in an emergency isn't a bad one. Its just not very practical.
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charley
Apr 19, 2006, 2:15 PM
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In reply to: Way back at the beginning of my climbing career, my dad gave me all of his hexes, amongst other things.
I hope you realize how lucky you are.
My hexes are wired.
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dirtineye
Apr 19, 2006, 3:20 PM
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In reply to: If the knot fits I put it inside. I don't think I would be able to untie the knots in mine even if I wanted too. The idea of taking off the slings to use in an emergency isn't a bad one. Its just not very practical.
This is wrong. Slung hexes are routinely used just for the sling value. YOu slide the hex to the middle and sling the two ends, DUH!
Extremely practical.
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vector
Apr 19, 2006, 3:39 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: If the knot fits I put it inside. I don't think I would be able to untie the knots in mine even if I wanted too. The idea of taking off the slings to use in an emergency isn't a bad one. Its just not very practical. This is wrong. Slung hexes are routinely used just for the sling value. YOu slide the hex to the middle and sling the two ends, DUH! Extremely practical.
A great point dirt. However, I don't think that having the knot inside the hex would prevent one from doing what you suggest. Am I wrong?
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chossmonkey
Apr 19, 2006, 3:40 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: If the knot fits I put it inside. I don't think I would be able to untie the knots in mine even if I wanted too. The idea of taking off the slings to use in an emergency isn't a bad one. Its just not very practical. This is wrong. Slung hexes are routinely used just for the sling value. YOu slide the hex to the middle and sling the two ends, DUH! Extremely practical.
That isn't what the OP is about. DUH!!!
How often do you untie your hexes to use them as a sling? :roll:
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keithlester
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Apr 19, 2006, 3:51 PM
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I reslung all my hexes, knot outside. I never thought of putting knot inside, but if you do, you lose the great advantage of being able to use the knot for a piece of gear. Dont laugh, I have done it and been very glad of it. We climb alot of Schistose rocks in my area, and a knot is sometimes the only piece of gear that will fit, but not break out the delicate edges of a placement. Sounds loopy, but you would need to be here and see it. :roll:
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dirtineye
Apr 19, 2006, 5:31 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: If the knot fits I put it inside. I don't think I would be able to untie the knots in mine even if I wanted too. The idea of taking off the slings to use in an emergency isn't a bad one. Its just not very practical. This is wrong. Slung hexes are routinely used just for the sling value. YOu slide the hex to the middle and sling the two ends, DUH! Extremely practical. That isn't what the OP is about. DUH!!! How often do you untie your hexes to use them as a sling? :roll:
The point is, you don't have to untie the knot to use a slung hex as a sling, unless you have tied a really stupid knot that won't let the cord move through one set of holes.
I've used the sling on hexes a few times. Most people who have slung hexes have done this, in my experience. But then I climb with a lot of very experienced climbers, who tend to know what's what.
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caughtinside
Apr 19, 2006, 5:38 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: If the knot fits I put it inside. I don't think I would be able to untie the knots in mine even if I wanted too. The idea of taking off the slings to use in an emergency isn't a bad one. Its just not very practical. This is wrong. Slung hexes are routinely used just for the sling value. YOu slide the hex to the middle and sling the two ends, DUH! Extremely practical. That isn't what the OP is about. DUH!!! How often do you untie your hexes to use them as a sling? :roll: The point is, you don't have to untie the knot to use a slung hex as a sling, unless you have tied a really stupid knot that won't let the cord move through one set of holes. I've used the sling on hexes a few times. Most people who have slung hexes have done this, in my experience. But then I climb with a lot of very experienced climbers, who tend to know what's what.
Dirt,
Note that even if the knot is inside the hex, you can still slide the other side of the hex down the cord to get the hex into the middle.
I'm surpised an experienced climber like you didn't know that.
Also, why wouldn't you want that knot inside the hex, and not cluttering your rack? People climb with sewn slings for a reason.
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petsfed
Apr 19, 2006, 6:06 PM
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I ask because its never occurred to me before, and my father was climbing with the sheer minimum. In addition, he never knew when he might need to rig an aider or any number of other things. I'd done it so long and there's no great reasons not to (the clutter from the knots doesn't bother me) that it never occurred to me to ask.
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fitzontherocks
Apr 19, 2006, 7:00 PM
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treez gets big points just for the background of his photos.
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jeremy11
Apr 19, 2006, 8:14 PM
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treez...you're gonna die.
(sorry couldn't resist) :lol:
seriously, that hex setup rocks!!
I use WC hexentrics on sewn spectra webbing and use them as slings quite a bit.
with the knot in or out, you still should be able to use it as a draw or even a prussik if the cord is long enough that you can tie a prussik and cram the hex thru. or just carry a spare prussik loop made into an extendable draw and a rap backup on your right leg loop w/ a biner and forget about both until you need them. then you always have at least two prussiks and three biners. I also take a double length sling wrapped up w/ a biner, homemade daisy and locker, atc and pear biner, an extra pear biner, and a knife and prussik loop on my chalk bag as "standard harness gear" that never comes off unless used on a climb.
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treez
Apr 19, 2006, 8:34 PM
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Thanks guys.
Are you sure that:
a) There isn't a weak spot at the hitch
b) The dyneema won't shock-load,crushing the hex
c) I can't check for wear behind the tubular webbing
or
d) Nanowires suck??
Come on, it's beautiful out, I'm in a cast and my friends are out heliin. I'm bored silly and wearing a flameproof suit. Let's go!!!
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dirtineye
Apr 19, 2006, 8:42 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: If the knot fits I put it inside. I don't think I would be able to untie the knots in mine even if I wanted too. The idea of taking off the slings to use in an emergency isn't a bad one. Its just not very practical. This is wrong. Slung hexes are routinely used just for the sling value. YOu slide the hex to the middle and sling the two ends, DUH! Extremely practical. That isn't what the OP is about. DUH!!! How often do you untie your hexes to use them as a sling? :roll: The point is, you don't have to untie the knot to use a slung hex as a sling, unless you have tied a really stupid knot that won't let the cord move through one set of holes. I've used the sling on hexes a few times. Most people who have slung hexes have done this, in my experience. But then I climb with a lot of very experienced climbers, who tend to know what's what. Dirt, Note that even if the knot is inside the hex, you can still slide the other side of the hex down the cord to get the hex into the middle. I'm surpised an experienced climber like you didn't know that. Also, why wouldn't you want that knot inside the hex, and not cluttering your rack? People climb with sewn slings for a reason.
Read what I said AGAIN. The cord must be able to move though one set of holes to use the slung hex as a sling. It is possible to tie the knot in such a way that this can't happen. For example, see Healyje's knot inside his big bro.
I never said the knot can't be inside the hex, you said that just now.
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caughtinside
Apr 19, 2006, 9:08 PM
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In reply to: you don't have to untie the knot to use a slung hex as a sling, unless you have tied a really stupid knot that won't let the cord move through one set of holes.
Aha! This is the source of confusion!
I read the sentence to mean one set of holes blocked by the knot, where I now think you intended it to mean one set of holes only needs to be free. A little ambiguous. My apologies.
As opposed of course to a knot on the outside, where both sets of holes are free.
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