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builttospill
Apr 24, 2006, 6:55 AM
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Recently went on a long rock route (I know, it's early season here, but wanted to get out and do something without too much snow on it still), and noticed the weight of the rack more than usual. I tend to pack as light as possible, but typically favor cams over hexes/nuts, just because I'm not comfortable placing passive pro very often from difficult positions. I know, practice makes perfect.
But the point is, I'd like to shave some weight from my rack. I figure carabiners are a good place to start, since I carry some fairly heavy mofo's usually. I have the Omega Pacific dirtbag draws (~54 grams per biner), and most of my spare biners are black diamond standard D's, which I think are between 50-55 grams (1.8 ounces....so 51 about). I had seen the neutrino's, and a quick search on "lightest carabiner" on google came up with the Camp Nano Wire. The Neutrino is 36 ounces according to Mountain Gear's catalog and the Nano Wire is supposedly 28 even. I also saw in Mountain Gear the Trango Superfly Wiregate at 30 ounces.
The Trango and BD ones looked similar in terms of gate clearance, and strength. Has anyone had any particular experiences with any of these three that would turn them off to them? Anyone want to sell a few.....like 10-20? Or know where I could find a smoking deal?
Any thoughts on other ways to lighten the rack on alpine routes? I could probably use lighter ice tools and ice axe too, but that will have to wait for awhile.
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scuclimber
Apr 24, 2006, 7:41 AM
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My partner went for Neutrinos. I went for Superflys. If you're going to be using them with gloves (i.e. ice, etc), then you might go Neutrinos or maybe Heliums if you have bigger hands. The Nanos are cool, but too small for my taste and I don't have particularly large hands. If I was wearing gloves, I'd probably not like them much at all. I went for the Supers because they're damn light, while still being big enough to handle relatively easily (haven't used them with gloves yet, as I don't climb ice, although I forsee crossing that bridge in the future). Not that much lighter than the Neuts, but a little. My partner likes them too, and while I like his Neutrinos, I like them somewhat less than my Supers. My two cents.
Colin
Edit: The Trangos can generally be bought for less than the BDs, another plus.
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builttospill
Apr 24, 2006, 8:00 AM
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They would be (ideally) used for climbing some mountain ice routes, although I can still bust out my heavier dirtbag draws for ice cragging, since weight isn't an issue.
I have relatively small hands, but I like to keep gloves on, as my hands get cold VERY easily.
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t-dog
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Apr 24, 2006, 8:12 AM
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In reply to: The Neutrino is 36 ounces according to Mountain Gear's catalog and the Nano Wire is supposedly 28 even. I also saw in Mountain Gear the Trango Superfly Wiregate at 30 ounces.
Damn!!! 2 lbs biners!!!!! Get me some of those!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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josephgdawson
Apr 24, 2006, 8:22 AM
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I am slowly replacing all of my BD Neutrinos with DMM Shields. The DMM Shield weighs 32 ounces, the gate is notchless and has better action. I wont go into a laundry list of why I like them, but I highly recommend getting one in your hand at your local store.
The only thing I do not like about the DMMs is that they are a little wider than Neutrinos, so they take up more space on your gear loops.
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builttospill
Apr 24, 2006, 8:33 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: The Neutrino is 36 ounces according to Mountain Gear's catalog and the Nano Wire is supposedly 28 even. I also saw in Mountain Gear the Trango Superfly Wiregate at 30 ounces. Damn!!! 2 lbs biners!!!!! Get me some of those!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yeah, that would be rather heavy eh? Oops.
Maybe I'll just have to try them all out at the store, to see. I hate driving to REI though, it's a long drive for me (well, 45 minutes). Oh well.
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hex
Apr 24, 2006, 9:02 AM
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I have both the Trango Superflys (30g) and the Wild Country Heliums (33g). I really like both, I got the Superflys first as I couldnt afford the Heliums at the time. Now I use my superflys for racking gear and my heliums for draws both tripled and a range of normal lengths. Both work great.
The Heliums are much much nicer tho, are larger and have a shrouded nose so no snagging etc. DMM have recently released new lightweight carabiners which are about the same weight as the Heliums and I'd imagine would feel very similar as DMM make Wild Countrys gear.
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petsfed
Apr 24, 2006, 10:56 AM
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Virtually any wiregate will save you a ton from light d's. Pick and choose to find the one that clips right for you, so long as you don't get the wirelock or some other goofy ass thing, you should be all right. My favorite is the Trango classic wire, because its light AND big.
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crimpstrength
Apr 24, 2006, 11:36 AM
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Think about your draws too. The 8mm dyneema slings from Mammut rock and I am sure the new 6mm are just as good. That is a quick way to loose some mass. Don't be so quick to just go out and get one biner because everyone says it works - they all work. Try some many biners, in the shop or on your rack, to get a feel for what fits your hand best. On my rack, I don't have the lightest biners, but they feel comfortable in my hand and they fit perfectly.
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dudemanbu
Apr 24, 2006, 4:39 PM
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OP Doval's, my new favorite biner, are 37 grams.
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tattooed_climber
Apr 24, 2006, 5:10 PM
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i opted for DMM LiveWires.....42 grams and the price was right at 7.50 canadian...and its a fare size biner which i like..(35 LiveWires and counting)...i have about 10 or more Hotwires (45g)...
afew grams don't bother me...on alpine i typically bring very few CUs and more tri-cams, hexs, pins etc..
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sspssp
Apr 24, 2006, 5:41 PM
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I predominantly use both the neutrinos and trango superflys (can't comment on the others). The superfly is a slightly improved version of the neutrino. [From what I can remember off the top of my head,] it is slightly lighter. I believe the gate opening is slightly bigger and I like the action slightly better. The rope bearing surface is a little better also (watch out for this on the small/light biners). Not a huge difference, but I see zero reason to choose the neutrino over the superfly. As I continue to replace my heavier biners, I'm going with superflys (although, seeing as there is more competition, I might have to check some of the others out).
Biners are an easy place to save weight. If you have long slings sewn on your cams, you can save weight by carrying fewer draws.
If you rack your cams with a biner already on them (which most climbers now do), you really only need to carry one biner on most of your slings for extending the cam. A little slower and more akward, but a tradeoff to consider when trying to shave weight.
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scuclimber
Apr 24, 2006, 11:07 PM
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I was looking at DMM Spectres in the store today too. Looks like a nice biner. Somebody mentioned the Shield too. The thing with DMMs and WC Heliums is the price difference. Superflys are like $7ish, I think. Neutrinos are $7.95. DMM Spectres are $10.95, and I'm guessing the Shields are thereabouts. Heliums are $10+. $3 a biner can add up quickly if you're replacing your whole rack. To many people the price difference might not matter, but to some it does.
Colin
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caughtinside
Apr 24, 2006, 11:24 PM
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Does anyone know if the superfly has a protected nose? I seem to recall that the far end of the wiregate kind of stuck out to the side a bit, seemed like it could get pushed open by the rock fairly easily. The neutrino has that beading on the side, which covers the gate somewhat.
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cortezmachine
Apr 24, 2006, 11:59 PM
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i have BD neutrinos for my shoulder length slings
superflys for my draws
and i use camp nanos to rack my cams (which will likely end up my rope clip)
heres why:
1) obviously the weight savings
2) i rack neutrinos on my extendors because i have noticed that with superfly and/or camps, the sling and biner tend to flop around A LOT. especially in windy conditions; a definite liability in terms of nuts pulling out when you climb above them. the neutrino is slightly heavier and bulkier so it stays put
3) camps on my cams to keep the damn weight down. cams are heavy enough
i only use this set up for sub 10mm ropes on alpine climbs where i hate lugging heavy shit because of the thin profile of the trangos and camps. i use larger heavier biners and thicker ropes for beating.
you dont reaaaaaaaaaaaaally need to think about weight unless youve got crazy long aproach, in the mountains, or climbing like 5.12 and above
your choice
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scuclimber
Apr 25, 2006, 12:24 AM
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In reply to: Does anyone know if the superfly has a protected nose? I seem to recall that the far end of the wiregate kind of stuck out to the side a bit, seemed like it could get pushed open by the rock fairly easily. The neutrino has that beading on the side, which covers the gate somewhat.
Dave,
Good observation. I just looked at mine and they don't seem to be as protected as Neutrinos--something I hadn't thought about. I'll have to keep that in mind. I don't know what it would take to open one at the correct angle, but stranger things have happened. Thanks for the heads up.
Colin
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caughtinside
Apr 25, 2006, 12:29 AM
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Hi Colin,
My concern is that if it's lying against a rock, on something less than vertical and you fall, the rock could push the gate slightly open. I'm not so much concerned with the rope popping out, as I am with the possiblity of falling on a biner--at open gate strength.
Probably not a big deal, but I look for a protected nose.
Dave
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scuclimber
Apr 25, 2006, 12:49 AM
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In reply to: Hi Colin, My concern is that if it's lying against a rock, on something less than vertical and you fall, the rock could push the gate slightly open. I'm not so much concerned with the rope popping out, as I am with the possiblity of falling on a biner--at open gate strength. Probably not a big deal, but I look for a protected nose. Dave
Yeah, that's the scenario I was thinking. Something slabby, you fall, biner slides across slab and hits some small irregularity and stops, gate open, you fall on an open-gated biner (or rope somehow slides out, either way). Yeah, I mean, chances are slim, but something to think about. BTW, I ended up deciding on Hastings. I'll let you know whether the cutthroat reputation is deserved. :wink:
Colin
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