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fearlessclimber
Apr 20, 2006, 3:19 PM
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I have recently started aid and have lead about 15 aid routes now in the A1-A2+ range. places such as camelback mtn, ice castles, cholla mtn and othe places. goin to go do and A3 in a little bit that is around the area. should i be using screamers for every piece or just the pieces that are poor. how many would i need for a full pitch on an A3 or an A4. i know that A3 and A4 is a bit of a jump for me but i have learned a lot of placements and what to do. i guess i will find out whe i get on an A4.
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ricardol
Apr 20, 2006, 3:23 PM
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I use screamers on the bad pieces .. or on questionable pieces after a long stretch of hooking .. basically anywhere where you get pretty sketched and you have questionable gear..
... the number you carry depends on what you consider questionable .. (do you consider all fixed heads questionable?) ..
.. i carried about 6 or 8 screamers on A3 ..
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fearlessclimber
Apr 20, 2006, 3:26 PM
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that kinda gives me an idea of how many i should have. i will probly carry about 10 to be safe.
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kristoffer
Apr 22, 2006, 3:05 AM
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what ricardol said pretty much hits the nail on the head...
I also usually slap one on directly off of the anchor, especially when im soloing.
10 of them should certainly get you by... hell on the majority of the walls i have done i only usually bring about 5, but then aging im not sending anything especially hard.
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ricardol
Apr 25, 2006, 12:53 AM
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yup -- when soloing i slap one on the first piece also ..
.. i like to carry the smaller scream-aid's because they are lighter and less bulky .. -- (but they will absorb less shock) ..
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12inchtick
Apr 25, 2006, 1:51 AM
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how do the screamers work? are they called screamers for any particular reason? possibly the noise they make if you fall?
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climbingaggie03
Apr 25, 2006, 2:27 AM
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as I understand it, Screamers reduce peak impact force (shockload) by ripping stiches (that are designed to rip) at a determined force. basically, they help make it a softer catch so that the piece won't rip out.
I think they are called screamers because of the sound you make when you fall on them, or the sound they prevent, I dunno, but the sound they make is a popping sound, not really a screaming sound.
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kristoffer
Apr 25, 2006, 2:33 AM
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You know that’s a pretty good question.. im not completely sure why they call them screamers.. maybe it has something to do with the slang for a big whipper, I know I have heard of a lot of people call big falls screamers.
climbingaggie03, could be onto something aswell…
As far as the sound they make, I couldn’t tell you anything besides the fact that every time I have deployed one I have fallen so far that all I heard was the sound of air rushing past my ears… good times.
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epoch
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Apr 25, 2006, 3:08 AM
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I remember my first fall on one. I COULD hear it deploy. I (like many others accounts that I have read and heard) thought that my rope was seperating. Freaky. But I'll agree with climbingaggie03 with the theoretical background behind the name. I let out a yelp as I passed by the piece of pro that caught me.
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stymingersfink
Apr 29, 2006, 1:26 AM
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In reply to: yup -- when soloing i slap one on the first piece also .. .. i like to carry the smaller scream-aid's because they are lighter and less bulky .. -- (but they will absorb less shock) ..
use a carabiner to chain a scream aid to a standard screamer. this will lower the activiation point of the screamer-draw while increasing the total ammount of force absorbed by the system.
Why is this, you ask?.
Scream-aids activates at approximately 1.5kN, while the standard screamer activates at 2kN.
However, the scream-aid sling will fail at approximately 1500-1800 lbs (approx 6kN, i believe). Girth-hitching the sling will reduce this number significantly, ergo, use a biner to make the connection. The standard screamer is rated to 22kN when fully deployed, so no issues there.
Therefore, a screamer + scream aid utilized in a manner described above will activate at approximately 1.5kN of force. If the scream aid deploys fully and there is still more than 2kN of force to be absorbed by the system, the standard screamer will activate removing another 4-7kN of force from the impact (depending on screamer model).
Buuut, if you're still falling when the screamer-chain is fully activated then you're praying you do not exceed the failure point of the scream-aid, which may prove to be the weak link in the system (there is a way around this particular weak link, but i'll leave that for another time).
In the end, if you do exceed the failure point of this chain then get ready for a ride of Kate-like proportions. :wink:
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ricardol
Apr 29, 2006, 2:33 AM
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umm .. i dont really buy much of that argument ..
when i place screamers on certain pieces .. its because i think the piece stinks and would fail if i looked at it wrong .. (ie, some shit 2 lobe cam, or a head, or a micro nut behind a micro crystal) ..
.. at any rate .. the assumption is that these pieces would probably hold a fall, if helped out a bit .. ie a short fall ..
... theferoe i dont care if the aid screamer would only hold 6kn when deployed,, since i assumed that the piece would fail anyways above 6kn ..
.. if i considered tha tth epiece would hold 20Kn .. then i might as well put a sling on it .. (and forget the screamer), since its a bomber piece.
.. just doesn't jingle with me to put 2 screamers on 1 placement.. -- (thats alot of screamers to carry!)
------------
re: kate's screamer .. her screamers broke because she girth hitched the sling on the scream-aid to the wire on a head (or was it on some of the rivets hangers) --
either way, the little sling didn't stand a chance -- like a knife to butter.. use a carabiner (like you said) --- i think she said in some cases the screamaids were not even fully deployed before the sling broke..
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karlbaba
Apr 29, 2006, 3:13 AM
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No point in putting a screamer on an absolutely bomber piece unless the fall factor is very high and the piece has a smaller diameter wire or something.
No point in putting a screamer on total mank, like a fixed bashie wiith half inch tubular webbing that's half rippen in half already. Don't even clip it. That way if you fall, it will still be there as a body weight placement when you are on your way back to your high point.
Use screamers when the piece might hold a fall, or if you really NEED it to hold the fall. (cause sometimes you get lucky)
On the other hand, inexperienced folks should err on the side of optimism. I've had a rurp hold a 25 foot fall. Many newbies wouldn't expect that.
Peace
Karl
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styndall
Apr 29, 2006, 3:26 AM
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In reply to: how do the screamers work? are they called screamers for any particular reason? possibly the noise they make if you fall?
I think it's on account of the noise you make if you fall in a situation that requires a screamer.
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moof
May 4, 2006, 5:29 PM
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Another screamer related comment from this weekends adventures in soloing:
If you use a screamer in your bottom anchor to reduce fall loads be careful with your first clip. Usually with partners I clip a draw into one of the bolts to avoid a factor 2 in case the first piece blows. However a short draw close to the anchor can snag against the screamer knot at take the load, preventing the screamer from deploying. Found this out after I popped and had to jug up past the anchor...
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tradmanclimbs
May 4, 2006, 5:49 PM
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Anyone know anything about the mammut screamers? they are tiny compared to the yates, What force do they deploy at? how much energy do they absorbe?? I cary 8 screamers when ice climbing and would be stoked to lighten the load,
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glyrocks
May 4, 2006, 6:33 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: how do the screamers work? are they called screamers for any particular reason? possibly the noise they make if you fall? I think it's on account of the noise you make if you fall in a situation that requires a screamer.
That lead fall I took on a screamer was the best fall I've ever had. It was super soft. I mean super soft. Brand new doubles, screamer deployed, belayer jumped. It was, by all accounts, a perfect fall. The point being, I didn't scream, but the screamer did.
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jaboyd510
May 4, 2006, 7:45 PM
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i think its what yer buddies do when they see you takin the big peel.
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nedsurf
May 4, 2006, 7:53 PM
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I thought this was about a partner who is particularly vocal during..."You mean, coitus." (The dude)
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glyrocks
May 4, 2006, 7:57 PM
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yes, it's usually afterwards that the screaming starts, not before- right?
Want to climb this weekend? Trying to rope up around your neck of the woods...
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stymingersfink
May 5, 2006, 11:49 PM
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In reply to: ... theferoe i dont care if the aid screamer would only hold 6kn when deployed,, since i assumed that the piece would fail anyways above 6kn ..
Each style of "Screamer" will absorb only a pre-determined amount of force from an impact.
My point was, keeping the load on the questionable piece below your expected 6kn failure piont. Let's say you're slinging a nut rated to 5kN on your third move from the anchors and looking at a significant runout ahead of you. In such a case, the piece is as likely to fail as the scream-aid is. Using the chained screamers as I described earlier would be an effective way to give your anchor a chance to avoid a factor 2 fall (or your carcass off a ledge), while keeping impact forces below gear failure point.
The lower threashold of activation and failure are the good+bad of scream-aids. In some situations (not all cases, but to increase your odds of surviving a given dangerous-fall scenario) I would try to stack the deck in my favor, even if that means doubling up my scream-aids to absorb more fall force. The important thing (IMO) is to know the tool, its limitations, and how to get a bit more performace from it than some people might otherwise get.
(note: I generally carry 2 zipper screamers for anchor protection, and up to a half-dozen scream aids. I have never placed all of them on a pitch, though I have g-hitched scream-aids together for more force reduction. never again- next time I'll use a biner to connect them.)
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ptpp
Nov 2, 2007, 6:32 AM
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The harder the aid pitch, the more desirable it is to have a bunch of Screamers. I think you're nuts to climb hard aid without them.
I'll take 15 or more on a hard route, and still wish I had more!
I love the things - it's a brilliant device that when properly used will keep you much safer. I am surprised the purists don't consider them to be cheating, they're that good.
Be careful with Scream-Aids - they are not that strong. They are really only useful on very marginal placements, like crappy heads. A well-placed #3 head will hold a decent fall - use a Screamer not a Scream-Aid.
I like Yates' the best, as they deploy very evenly. A nice soft "catch" when you finally stop.
Don't clip the mank at all for the reasons Karl suggests.
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