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oasis27alh
Apr 27, 2006, 1:04 AM
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So I recently finished boot camp and am almost through with BECC engineering school for the navy and soon ship out for my first deployment. I'm really into photoshop and digital photography but the lack of a laptop/pc the next 4 years limits my digital capabilities, especially underway on the ship.
I'm willing to throw down a good 500-800 dollars for a camera, maybe more, but I have no clue where to start with brands or types of film cameras. I'd have limited space but definitely want a SLR type camera (the ones with interchangeable lenses). Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated, point me to good places to purchase cameras too if you know any online.
I hope to do some rockclimbing in the Pacific while I'm out, so a durable camera would be nice.
thanks again for the help
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pico23
Apr 27, 2006, 3:03 AM
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Honestly, Nikon F4 or N90 or F100.
All can be had for under $500 for the body. Shoot the N90 for like $250 isn't uncommon. The F4 goes for about $400 so does the F100.
The F100 is the most advanced but the N90 is pro level and solid for a little less money.
The F4 is a beast. I mean a beast. It's big, heavy and big and heavy. But it's probably one of the most rugged (correction, the most rugged) auto cameras ever made and it has 100% viewfinder accuracy and true mirror lockup. Plus tons of features the F100 and N90 don't have (of course the N90 and F100 are much newer and have features the f4 lacks). I never understood why a camera had to double as a hammer but this thing can double as a hammer and still work as a camera. Been to both poles, and just about any nasty remote place on earth.
You can use any old nikon lens on the F4. The F100 had some limitations. But you can pick up tons of nice manual nikon lenses for a good deal.
Get a nice speedlight, 3 sweet lenses and your out a measly $800 for something your kids can hammer nails with and still shoot photos with if there is any film left in 20 years.
edited to add:
Fuji just released Provia 400X which supposedly has the grain structure of Provia 100 but with the ability to push to 800 or 1600. Not bad for a super fine grained slide film. I love Provia 100F so I'm excited to give the 400X a shot.
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healyje
Apr 27, 2006, 3:54 AM
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I'm an ex-Navy photog who did two tours to Vietnam. I shot with a Leica M4, a Nikomat (or Nikkormat in the US), and a Speed Graphic. If I were going back out with a film camera it would still be the Nikomat today. Bulletproof, metal shutter, indestructible, and dirt cheap on ebay. Get one or two and have them gone over by an old guy somewhere, get a bunch of old nikon lenses and you're set..
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pico23
Apr 27, 2006, 4:52 AM
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Personally I love full manual cameras and still have the most fun shooting with them but for most people born post 1975 want some automation.
The F4 or other cameras give you room to expand but if you can get a Nikkormat dirt cheap picking one up to go with the F4/F100/N90 as backup is not a bad idea. The AF on these cameras is good too. I always carry a second body on trips just in case. body without lens doesn't take all that much extra space. it's a bonus if it's compatable with all your lenses.
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guangzhou
Apr 28, 2006, 5:08 AM
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In all honesty, as a former member of the military who has traveled on Navy ships, you should stick with digital.
Computers are availaible evrywhere on bases and ships.
On the other hand, if you really want to make the switch, go shooping and put the camera in you hands. All manual are over rated. All cameras can go all manual, so go for something that does the auto stuff too. Especially if you plan on shooting rock climbing while climbing.
If ever you are in Okinawa, look me up. I take a bunch of you navy guys climbing. Most of them have digital cameras to record the fun on.
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melekzek
Apr 28, 2006, 7:44 AM
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i love my eos 5. Unless you break the infamous command dial [fix] it is the best 35mm film camera ever. You can get a mint condition second hand for 150-200$ and spend the rest of your money on lenses.
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oasis27alh
May 7, 2006, 7:47 PM
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thank you very much for the input, I've done some searching and studying up on digital and film photography and almost want to lean towards digital now... I'm very good with photoshop and love to analyze what pictures I've taken with the lcd on a digital camera.... to see what I've shot.
I know theft aboard a ship is large and stuff, so I may want insurance on it, if I'm dolling out a grand on this.
I want to make the purchase the right one, after all, it's a chunk of change I can't mess with, especially on a military wage.
the other thing I was considering was the deterioration of technology, when you buy digital stuff, you know, over time it sucks compared to what new stuff comes out. Now, if I buy a nikon 50 or 70s with 6MP, is that a dumb 500-800 dollar investment because in three years time it will almost suck?
I don't know, I'm in a dillema.
And that comment about computers on ships n'stuff is definitely true, I could always just buy like four 2GB scandisks or whatever to keep the photos on until I find somewhere/someone to make a dvd of them.
so, now that I know what film stuff to consider, what digital do you recommend? I don't know if I want to shell out the money for the nikon 200 even though it has amazing reviews... what are your thoughts?
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pico23
May 9, 2006, 2:25 AM
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In reply to: thank you very much for the input, I've done some searching and studying up on digital and film photography and almost want to lean towards digital now ... so, now that I know what film stuff to consider, what digital do you recommend? I don't know if I want to shell out the money for the nikon 200 even though it has amazing reviews... what are your thoughts?
something to remember, the image quality doesn't degrade. that is, a DSLR with good resolution and low noise in 2006 will still have the same image quality and low noise in 2008. only the marketers will tell you that your image sucks and you need a new $2000 camera. don't blame them they are trying to keep there jobs, not screw you.
Nice little article on this topic in this months Popular Photography on page 48. Reaffirmed my choice to go with a used and antiquated Pentax Ist* D which was the original Pentax DSLR.
The article even goes into the marketing ploy that you need "digital only lenses with special coatings." again nonsense. and quite honestly the SMC coating on pentax lenses is so good i don't know how they could reduce reflections anymore. so even it this was true for the other companies at least pentax has about 40 years of used lenses that you can use.
anyway, buy a camera with good noise and resolution. something that feels good in your hand and has well layed out controls. something with toggles and buttons and not hidden menus that take forever to gain control of.
The D200 is amazing with comparable resolution to the full frame Canon 5D. But when you compare it to say a Maxxum 7D you have to wonder which is a better deal.
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guangzhou
May 9, 2006, 3:10 AM
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A good digital camera will last you a long time. Stick with one of the name brand cameras like, Minolta, Nikon, Canon and you'll be fine.
I recomend a DSLR over the others, but that's my personal preference.
A good comparison I read lately, 6MP is equal to 35mm film.
If you are ever in Okinawa, shoot me an email. I climb with a lot of seaman coming through.
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pico23
May 9, 2006, 3:27 AM
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In reply to: I recomend a DSLR over the others, but that's my personal preference. A good comparison I read lately, 6MP is equal to 35mm film.
35mm print film!!! :wink:
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guangzhou
May 9, 2006, 3:56 AM
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In reply to: 35mm print film!!!
You are correct, print film, which is what most people are still shooting.
My 6Mp camera get files that are big enough to sell to glossy magazines and I just sold a photo to a calender company. (One year exclusive rights hurt, but the $$2300 was worth it.
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melekzek
May 9, 2006, 4:11 AM
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how much was that, i missed it.
Please tell me more about how much money you make through photography.
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pico23
May 11, 2006, 4:35 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: 35mm print film!!! You are correct, print film, which is what most people are still shooting. My 6Mp camera get files that are big enough to sell to glossy magazines and I just sold a photo to a calender company. (One year exclusive rights hurt, but the $$2300 was worth it.
Just a random question? Is it possible to make $2300 with a image taken on film? Or is that just limited to 6MP digital?
Also, can you only fill a glossy magazine with digital or is it possible to sneak a film image in every now and then? Like perhaps if you scan it at a high resolution and say it was taken with a Nikon D2X or something?
BTW, I shoot mostly slides these days. Provia 100F but I'm anxious to try the 400X which has the grain of 100F but can be pushed to 1600.
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tradmanclimbs
May 11, 2006, 4:54 PM
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spoke with peter miller last fall and he told me that both of the stock agencys that he worked with out of nyc stopped accepting slides and would only accept digital images shot in raw with 12mp or higher res cameras. He was really bummed out. An old guy with 50yrs in the buisness sitting there in his booth trying to wade through the d2x manuel.
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pico23
May 11, 2006, 10:32 PM
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So just to be clear. You can no longer do a 100MB tiff drum scan of a 35mm slide and submit it as a digital file for publication?
A slide who's resolution is "still" better then digital?
Me thinks thats incorrect. However, I wouldn't submit a analog slide anyway. You should always scan and tweak your photos. Once it's scanned it's just as digital as a original digital file.
Going back the original topic will the original poster be limited in the short term going film (for a bargain rate) seeing as how he isn't as of yet selling anything to the stock agencies and doesn't have a ton of money to front load.
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guangzhou
May 12, 2006, 12:01 AM
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I never said you can't scan slide or negative film. I never even hinted at that.
I think Digital SLR are better than film for most users. I still think that traditional film has a place and I realize that some photographers prefer it.
Shooting a 6mp camera in RAW format will be superior to Film. Some say that it stacks up to slide film, but I don’t believe that.
On the other hand, 10MP and 12 PM shot in RAW are far superior to Negative and do give slides a run for their money.
One of the biggest advantages to shooting digital for me is that I can change ISO with every shot if I want. I can shoot close to 100 photos without changing film. Nice if you want to do underwater stuff. (I shoot RAW on One GIG cards.)
I don't have to scan my slides anymore. Which saves me a ton of time.
I don't have to get my slides processed, which save me a ton of money.
I submit to Alamy and Absolute Stock. Very traditional stock agencies. Photos they have sold form my 6 MP files have appeared on Billboards. Is that big enough?
My lesser shots, I submit to micros.
The shots I like a lot, I print, mount, and put on the wall at home. I just took a 6 MP RAW file and create a 36 by 24 print with great resolution. It's being displayed in a local bank and in my living room.
We could also look at the environmental impact of FIlm versus Digital photography.
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littlebilly
May 12, 2006, 2:28 AM
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I would recomend a Canon Digital Rebel which, while not built like a brick, can survive some mild mistreatment. There are 4 canon digital cameras in my family, so i'm biased, but Canon seems to have less noise than Nikon, so you can shoot at a higher ISO, and a faster shutter speed. This will be important if you don't have a IS lens. Check out B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com) and the digital SLR specials. B&H# CAEDRBK6 is the Rebel with 1gb Sandisk card (but no lens) for $599. A 18-55mm lens is cheap, but for a reason, i also like the 28-105mm which is better, I have the 17-85mm ImageStabalized lens which is really nice, but costs almost as much as the camera.
You are obviously not looking for Pro equipment so don't be scared by poor reviews from pro photographers on some lenses, we are perfectionists and will gladly go with out food for a month to get a top quality lens. for canon reviews check out The Digital Picture (http://the-digital-picture.com/)
Also watch out for the extras (extra battery (the right type), UV filter (the right size), USB card reader, ect.) they can really add up. If you are going to be on the water a lot get a circular polarizing filter to cut down on glare.
Hope this helps.
VL
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tradmanclimbs
May 12, 2006, 1:58 PM
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I am not sure which agencys peter was talking about but he had been with them for decades and they told him that they would no longer accept slides and that he needed to get either a d2X or eos16mp 1D. those may have been strong suggestions on the camera choices and not absolute rules.
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pico23
May 17, 2006, 9:24 PM
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In reply to: We could also look at the environmental impact of FIlm versus Digital photography.
Be very careful looking at digital as a non enviromental impacting option.
IBM which makes semiconductors and such is the biggest poluter in NY state. Thats despite state of the art filtration. So unless you are still using the same 386 from 15 years ago you probably contributed to this pollution.
Now like the intelligence challenged (aka retards) who believe there electric car has zero impact your monitor, CPU and hard drive all use power and have an impact on greenhouse emissions. Actually a persons house contributes more to greenhouse emissions than does their vehicle.
Also, don't forget the waste problems with these now disposable appliances. There is a reason the states are introducing taxes to combat the issue of disposal of the massive amounts of obselete electronics. YOur camera, monitors, computers and batteries are all disposable.
Silver based processing is arguably as bad. It uses electric and bleach and silver among other things. However, the silver is generally recovered via filtration, and the silver is by far the most environmentally toxic aspect of silver based film processing. I've worked in both large scale processing plants and mini labs and while i can't comment on the waste on a large scale plant, the mini labs are probably not much more damaging then a family of 4 washing there clothes over the course of a year. Those mini labs are incredibly effecient by the way.
Just a question as well. Does the ink produced for your inkjet printers produce toxic waste in it's production? I personally don't know but I'm guessing the answer is probably yes.
Basically, what I'm saying unless you own your own windfarm and/or solar and never upgrade computers or cameras or printers then your use of digital certainly can't be characterized as "Green".
If you have #'s that substantially say otherwise please pass them along. But definitely take into consideration all the forms of waste associated with digital before drinking the coolaid.
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