|
punk_rocker333
Apr 27, 2006, 6:52 AM
Post #1 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 9, 2004
Posts: 387
|
I rack all of my cams on their own carabiner, like most people. When I place the cam I attach a trad draw (runner and two biners) straight to the cam sling and then take the racking biner off of the cam and attach it to my rack. I find the removal of the carabiner quite a hastle. Last week while climbing I noticed that my climbing partner did the same thing, but left the racking biner on the cam sling along with the trad draw. I found this a little odd but also realized that he didn't have to bother with removing the carabiner.
How do you place your cam? Do you leave the racking biner on or do you go through the process that I do? Do you use an easier method?
thanks for responses.
|
|
|
|
|
slhappy
Apr 27, 2006, 7:07 AM
Post #2 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2002
Posts: 207
|
you need to get a set of right handed biners for the situations you are describing (provided you are left handed). beyond that... I'd have to recomende...
a. figure you're gunna have to figure with your gear
b. take the "racking biner"...
b.0. what the hell is a racking biner?
c. and put it on yur harness for future passback at the belay...or leave.. and have follower rack their own gear
d. dont climb "tRAD" brah ez no good...
start with the right handed biners (RHB)...
|
|
|
|
|
scuclimber
Apr 27, 2006, 7:48 AM
Post #3 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 30, 2003
Posts: 1007
|
In reply to: you need to get a set of right handed biners for the situations you are describing (provided you are left handed). beyond that... I'd have to recomende... a. figure you're gunna have to figure with your gear b. take the "racking biner"... b.0. what the hell is a racking biner? c. and put it on yur harness for future passback at the belay...or leave.. and have follower rack their own gear d. dont climb "tRAD" brah ez no good... start with the right handed biners (RHB)...
Did anybody else think the post quoted above was coherent? Just curious...
Colin
|
|
|
|
|
rockrat511
Apr 27, 2006, 7:55 AM
Post #4 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 5, 2004
Posts: 1109
|
Be nice man, he's obviously new, therefore the proper response would be
STFU nOOb!!! 8^)
And no I didn't understand an f'ing word of it.
|
|
|
|
|
josephgdawson
Apr 27, 2006, 8:56 AM
Post #5 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 303
|
I do the same thing as your partner. I rack each cam on its own biner and when I place a cam and decide to sling it out with a draw I just clip the draw to the cam and leave the extra biner on there dangling. I think it makes reracking faster because you do not have to locate all the biners.
|
|
|
|
|
sbaclimber
Apr 27, 2006, 10:43 AM
Post #6 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 3118
|
In reply to: I do the same thing as your partner. I rack each cam on its own biner and when I place a cam and decide to sling it out with a draw I just clip the draw to the cam and leave the extra biner on there dangling.
Ditto. I rack my cams with hotwires, so I can clip into the cam sling easily and quickly, if need be. Generally though, I will clip a sling/runner to the cam sling, but not retrieve the 'racking' 'biner. That would just mean that I would have a whole bunch of single unused 'biners that I am hauling to the top of a climb for no reason.
|
|
|
|
|
hammerhead
Apr 27, 2006, 10:47 AM
Post #7 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2004
Posts: 371
|
I carry 6-10 slings over my shoulder with 1 biner on each. When I place a cam I reach for one of these slings. I clip the sling to the cam and clip the other biner to the rope. Problem solved.
Al
|
|
|
|
|
saxfiend
Apr 27, 2006, 11:23 AM
Post #8 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 31, 2004
Posts: 1208
|
In reply to: I carry 6-10 slings over my shoulder with 1 biner on each. When I place a cam I reach for one of these slings. I clip the sling to the cam and clip the other biner to the rope. Problem solved. Al
JL
|
|
|
|
|
jakedatc
Apr 27, 2006, 11:33 AM
Post #9 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054
|
yep.. i do the same as sax and hammerhead. works well and saves biner.. i keep the extras racked together in bunches of 3-4 to be placed on passive gear that is racked together then i can use those same over the shoulder slings
|
|
|
|
|
rhythm164
Apr 27, 2006, 12:20 PM
Post #10 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 964
|
I usually leave the racking biner attached to the cam sling, usless it looks like I might need it at some future placement, then I start taking them. I find it saves time, plus I have a bunch of trad draws readly avalible.
|
|
|
|
|
dutyje
Apr 27, 2006, 1:06 PM
Post #11 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2004
Posts: 727
|
I learned the shoulder sling w/ one carabiner method from someone who posted it up last year on RC.com. I love it. If I need extension, but less length, I sometimes clip a trad draw and leave the racking biner behind as others have mentioned. I learned that part while seconding and realizing it was a pain to re-rack everything if the leader had swiped all the racking biners on the way up.
|
|
|
|
|
jakedatc
Apr 27, 2006, 1:34 PM
Post #12 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054
|
yea... if you clip a draw to it then leave the rackign biner.. so you can rack cleaner on your harness on the way up and much easier at the change overs
|
|
|
|
|
robbovius
Apr 27, 2006, 2:10 PM
Post #13 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 20, 2002
Posts: 8406
|
given the variety of responses, the porper answer is, "it depends" ;-)
sometimes ya take the biner, sometimes you don't, depending on the stance, whether you'll need free biners later in the pitch, how much extending you need to do, whther you can get the racking biner opff easily, etc...
leaving the racking carabiner on the cam doesn't really cause any issue, unless you run short of free biners to extend passive pieces that are racked multiples to a biner, and need one at every placement.
personally, I have taken to racking single trad draws with two biners off my sling, or harness, and double draws (as well as quads) over my shoulder with a single biner on them.
|
|
|
|
|
crimpstrength
Apr 27, 2006, 2:21 PM
Post #14 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 285
|
Rack several nuts to a biner and carry a few trad draws with two biners. Rack cams individually and carry some trad draws with one biner. Depending on what you place, use the appropriate trad draw. I prefer a few doubled up ons on my harness and a few of them extended over my shoulder. Is this as big an issue as we are making it?
|
|
|
|
|
livinonasandbar
Apr 27, 2006, 2:56 PM
Post #15 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 3, 2003
Posts: 356
|
All this discussion make one wonder why cams come with "draws" on them in the first place. If you're climbing a pitch that doesn't wander much, you shouldn't need to add an additional sling. (You're just increasing the distance you can fall.) Having said that, however, I find that the "draws" on my Metolius cams are so stiff they contribute to making the cams walk as a result of rope movement. This pisses me off. I don't recall whose cams have them, but I like the ones that are made with a wrapped sling that can be extended. It seems this would save a lot of extra steps, plus the need to rack extra slings and biners...
The only reason to retrieve the "racking" biner after slinging a cam is in order to use it later on in the pitch. And, if you never need to do so, perhaps you're packing too many biners (and extra weight), n'est pas?
|
|
|
|
|
mr8615
Apr 27, 2006, 3:35 PM
Post #16 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 4, 2004
Posts: 1032
|
In reply to: All this discussion make one wonder why cams come with "draws" on them in the first place. If you're climbing a pitch that doesn't wander much, you shouldn't need to add an additional sling. (You're just increasing the distance you can fall.) Having said that, however, I find that the "draws" on my Metolius cams are so stiff they contribute to making the cams walk as a result of rope movement. This pisses me off. I don't recall whose cams have them, but I like the ones that are made with a wrapped sling that can be extended. It seems this would save a lot of extra steps, plus the need to rack extra slings and biners... The only reason to retrieve the "racking" biner after slinging a cam is in order to use it later on in the pitch. And, if you never need to do so, perhaps you're packing too many biners (and extra weight), n'est pas?
South Florida, eh? You don't get out much do you? It's extremely rare that the sling on a cam is adequate to reduce rope drag and prevent walking. I can't remember the last cam I placed and clipped without adding a runner or draw.
Unless you're climbing plumb splitters (Indian Creek), you should be using draws or slings, or you'll lose a bunch of placements (walking) and struggle more than is necessary (rope drag), it won't matter that you're saving all that weight by not carrying racking biners and draws.
I also like the cams w/ extendable slings, but they're not always enough either. I know j_ung has many (all?) of his cams reslung using the doubled sling method, perhaps he'll chime in w/ his experience.
Mark
|
|
|
|
|
livinonasandbar
Apr 27, 2006, 4:05 PM
Post #18 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 3, 2003
Posts: 356
|
Now, be respectful of your elders, Mark...
As I said, you "shouldn't" need to use an extra sling, meaning I don't know why the manufacturers haven't addressed this issue more effectively. So, I guess you're in agreement with me.
|
|
|
|
|
king_rat
Apr 27, 2006, 4:09 PM
Post #19 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 365
|
In reply to: I rack all of my cams on their own carabiner, like most people. When I place the cam I attach a trad draw (runner and two biners) straight to the cam sling and then take the racking biner off of the cam and attach it to my rack. I find the removal of the carabiner quite a hastle. Last week while climbing I noticed that my climbing partner did the same thing, but left the racking biner on the cam sling along with the trad draw. I found this a little odd but also realized that he didn't have to bother with removing the carabiner. How do you place your cam? Do you leave the racking biner on or do you go through the process that I do? Do you use an easier method? thanks for responses.
I don't know why people bother posting shit like this, it doesn’t matter what you do, do what ever feels best and is most efficient. Beyond that it’s down to you.
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Apr 27, 2006, 4:18 PM
Post #20 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
In reply to: All this discussion make one wonder why cams come with "draws" on them in the first place. If you're climbing a pitch that doesn't wander much, you shouldn't need to add an additional sling. (You're just increasing the distance you can fall.) Having said that, however, I find that the "draws" on my Metolius cams are so stiff they contribute to making the cams walk as a result of rope movement. This pisses me off. I don't recall whose cams have them, but I like the ones that are made with a wrapped sling that can be extended. It seems this would save a lot of extra steps, plus the need to rack extra slings and biners... The only reason to retrieve the "racking" biner after slinging a cam is in order to use it later on in the pitch. And, if you never need to do so, perhaps you're packing too many biners (and extra weight), n'est pas?
MORON!
Climb on short slung cams, or any other gear for that matter, and reap what you sow.
People get hurt and dead doing this.
The advice in this quote is mortally stupid. don't take it.
|
|
|
|
|
dnice_co
Apr 27, 2006, 4:35 PM
Post #21 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 6, 2006
Posts: 5
|
How I rack my cams depends upon where I am climbing. For example, when I climb in Eldorado Canyon, I rack as per the following: bigger cams on their own biner (i.e., camalots 1 and up), smaller cams in bunches of two or three on one biner (i.e. camalots 0.1 - 0.75). I use trad draws doubled up so I can adjust the length. As for the racking biner on the cams with one biner, I usually leave it-unless I want a little more security, then I take it off and put in on the rope end opposite and opposed. This works nicely when you are at the top of a 30' run-out.
As far as clipping directly to the cam's sling-I do this at I-creek and other places that have very straight lines. However, I have had cams rotate almost out doing this too-so use good judgment.
And sometimes I use extended runners with one biner as others have suggested-this works fine, and is IMHO faster in terms of the second cleaning gear.
|
|
|
|
|
geezergecko
Apr 27, 2006, 5:04 PM
Post #22 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 729
|
In reply to: ... then I take it off and put in on the rope end opposite and opposed.. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
punk_rocker333
Apr 27, 2006, 5:54 PM
Post #24 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 9, 2004
Posts: 387
|
Don't worry. I know that slings are required on nearly every placement. I found that out on a trip to Red Rocks and various other trad climbs. I've only placed 1 piece without a sling so far, and even that was a bad idea. I'll have to see if I prefer leaving the racking biner on. Seems easier as I have plenty of carabiners for the short trad climbs that I do. I'll stick to racking cams individually for now.
Sorry if this post seemed like "shit" to some. I merely wanted to know if other people found fiddling with a racking biner to be difficult or not and what alternatives there are to this. Thanks for the constructive responces. Great pictures tradrenn. I'll have to pick up a hat like that.
|
|
|
|
|
saxfiend
Apr 27, 2006, 6:13 PM
Post #25 of 52
(5767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 31, 2004
Posts: 1208
|
In reply to: This is the way I rack my cams.
-- the color coordination is off with several of the paired cams.
-- the climbing helmet is a sport helmet and is not rated for trad falls.
It's a wonder you're still alive! :mrgreen:
JL
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
