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coolklimber
May 1, 2006, 1:17 AM
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They are industrial carabiners, they say they can hold 2000lbs, would these be ok to use in a toprope anchor?
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boardline22
May 1, 2006, 1:25 AM
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I would say yes unless you and your belayer weigh a total of 2000. I would not go with my advice though on this topic.
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sbaclimber
May 1, 2006, 1:35 AM
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That is probably their working strength, not breaking strength, which would be a bit higher. It will still be nowhere near the 20kN+ rating on most standard aluminum climbing carabiners though (actually, depending on the factor used by the manufacturer, it may well be more than 2.5tons).
Considering the relatively low cost of a couple of cheap aluminum lockers, I personally wouldn't bother with carrying around the weight of steel 'biners, unless it is a permanant setup.
Either way, don't use a single 'biner of any type!
Out of curiosity, what is the diameter of the carabiner material, and is it stainless (I assume it is steel of some sort)?
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jimdavis
May 1, 2006, 2:11 AM
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Got a picture of them?
Biners are cheap though, knowing that what you have is good for climbing is worth the $20.
Cheers,
Jim
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lichenmuncher
May 1, 2006, 2:27 AM
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ttfn
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meesier42
May 1, 2006, 2:49 AM
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please post a picture of it. I have some industrial that I have acquired over the years, Both are steel biners. One is rates at 65kN the other 4000lbs from RSI. The thing about some of the steel biners is that some of them are designed for specific usage, ie ladder hooks.
Personnally I use Jake screwgate for my TR anchors. Nice and fat.
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coolklimber
May 1, 2006, 3:04 AM
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No, I have $$$, it takes time for stuff to be shipped to where i live. My dad got them for me from his work. They look almost identical to these:
http://www.mec.ca/Main/home.jsp?bmForm=mec_quick_search&bmFormID=1146453161072&bmUID=1146453161073&bmIsForm=true&bmPrevTemplate=%2FMain%2Fhome.jsp&bmText=quick_search&quick_search=4006-354&bmSubmit=search&search=Search&bmFields=bmForm%2CbmFormID%2CbmUID%2CbmIsForm%2CbmPrevTemplate%2CbmText%2CbmSubmit&bmHash=ddc88dc7a9237023d1cd7948e8c37ce84de4b297
http://i64.photobucket.com/...ercam/carabiner2.jpg
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treez
May 1, 2006, 3:14 AM
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That's not a carabiner. It's called a quicklink.
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sbaclimber
May 1, 2006, 3:17 AM
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In reply to: No, I have $$$, it takes time for stuff to be shipped to where i live. My dad got them for me from his work. They look almost identical to these: http://www.mec.ca/Main/home.jsp?bmForm=mec_quick_search&bmFormID=1146453161072&bmUID=1146453161073&bmIsForm=true&bmPrevTemplate=%2FMain%2Fhome.jsp&bmText=quick_search&quick_search=4006-354&bmSubmit=search&search=Search&bmFields=bmForm%2CbmFormID%2CbmUID%2CbmIsForm%2CbmPrevTemplate%2CbmText%2CbmSubmit&bmHash=ddc88dc7a9237023d1cd7948e8c37ce84de4b297 http://i64.photobucket.com/...ercam/carabiner2.jpg
um, that is not a 'carabiner' per se..... it is what is generally known as a 'quick link' or 'maillon rapide'.
The one in the pic is 3/8" and is rated for 1880lbs, working strength.
Edit, these are generally 'only' used for rap anchors, though in duplicate would *probably* be okay (I know many anchors where these have been used to affix chains).
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coolklimber
May 2, 2006, 1:12 AM
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Im going to check with the local gym when I go, if they say yes Ill tell you they worked if i get back.
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majid_sabet
May 2, 2006, 1:55 AM
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1/10 saftey ratio, you should consider fall/force factor
Your 2000 pound biner is rated to hold max 200 lbs
The 2000 lbs is only when there are no shock or fall factor involved.
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billcoe_
May 2, 2006, 2:05 AM
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You don't say what they will be used for. If it's just for clipping some chains at the top of a climb, it would be fine. Probably safe to say that if you have to ask some strangers on the Internet, and don't define how you will use the links, the correct answer is just NO.
However, if you insist on doing it anyway, and adding to what Majet says: you'll need a rope too. I'd suggest getting a clothesline off your moms backyard cloths rack and just going for it. At least when you die, you will have been going for it.
If you can't afford clothesline, I'd go with the dental floss or kite string. If you can't afford that, then maybe go to the dentist, and get the used dental floss they toss out, and just tie it all together. This has the added benefit of being super light, to compensate for the weight of the steel crap your dad is giving you, and if you get hungry you can lick the floss to pull off old food particles for lunch.
Should be strong enough. If each piece can hold say: 50 lbs, and you have 200 pieces tied together, that's 50 x 200= 10,000 lbs or 1,000 lbs depending on your math: either way it is plenty strong.
Then post another thread on what kinds of knots people suggest for holding your floss rope together. Careful, folks get passionate about their knots.
Jugging may be difficult, but what the hell eh? At least you'll have died going for it.
That's my advise, you asked for it.
So to recap: get life insurance. Have a will. Have fun, say good by to your loved ones, write them some nice notes or something will ya.
See ya.
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climbingaggie03
May 2, 2006, 2:10 AM
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this is kinda random, but can you imagine trying to lead with quick links instead of biners, strength issues aside, that would be incredibly awkward, trying to screw the gates, get the rope in the link. If you do lead with these, bring us video.
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vegastradguy
May 2, 2006, 2:12 AM
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no.
for the same price you can get an oval carabiner thats rated to 18kn (the quicklink is less than 10kn).
i hate it when people try to cut corners to save a buck when it comes to climbing gear....its your life, pretend to care about it once in a while!
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billcoe_
May 2, 2006, 2:15 AM
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In reply to: this is kinda random, but can you imagine trying to lead with quick links instead of biners, strength issues aside, that would be incredibly awkward, trying to screw the gates, get the rope in the link. If you do lead with these, bring us video.
Well you could easily untie, thread it through, then retie. No need to get all complicated here. People do it all the time don't they, that's why they do that 1 handed tie in thing like Healyje and Acadia were arguing about on that other thread: no?
Remember, easier done than said: measure once, cut twice.
See, easy?!
______________________________________________
Actually, the rapide links would be fine for toproping. But that's it.
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sbaclimber
May 2, 2006, 2:22 AM
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Okay, majid (you weren't being a smartass) and billcoe_ (you most certainly were being a smart ass :P ), you both bring up good points, and I am not suggesting the OP does anything with his 'carabiners' one way or the other, but I am curious about one thing...
Do either of you climb sport routes with fixed draws, indoors or out, or maybe rap off of anchors with chains?? How often have you trusted your life to those very same (type) quicklinks, under both static and dynamic loads?
Serious question :arrow:
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robbovius
May 2, 2006, 2:22 AM
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those quick links will work fine, but you should save them for top rope anchors only, simply because it takes so much time to screw and unscrew the link. beyond price, they have no functional advantage. I carry one or two 3/8s links SOMETIMES, if I'm on a route where i think I might need a bail biner, or to substitute for rap rings. I regularly find them as chain attachments on bolted trad anchors.
as far as safety, the average steel screw link, screwed shut, will hold far more than anything the average climber can subject it to, falling. the rope would snap first. I've towed cars with the things. yes yes, anecdotal hearsay, I know.
as trad carabiners, they suck, because they're so much work to open and close, and weigh a ton compared to the average $15 screwgate locker. in fact, lately I've been buying BD keylock screwgates at REI for $10.
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coolklimber
May 2, 2006, 11:13 PM
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Im just going to buy some, its too much of a hassle to ask a simple yes or no question on here anyway.
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treez
May 2, 2006, 11:19 PM
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In reply to: Im just going to buy some, its too much of a hassle to ask a simple yes or no question on here anyway.
I think you've learned quite a bit from this thread.
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thegroundhurts
May 3, 2006, 12:33 AM
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I've seen quite a few perma-draws where the bolt end is affixed via quicklink, and quite a few lead falls on them, yes they'll hold. The ratings on industrial gear is different than climbing gear: industrial gear is rated to "safe working load", climbing gear to breaking strength. Working load is usually around 1/10 of break strength, so do your calculations accordingly. I'd maybe be concerned about the rope feeding smoothly through them, since they're smaller than a normal 'biner, but try it and you'll be able to tell if its a problem. As for using a quicklink being the same as clothesline or dental floss, I think common sense would tell you thats not quite analogous to using a steel quicklink, that is "stronger than god" (see John Long's book). Make sure you use two, just like you would use two lockers to set up a toprope, but otherwise you'll be fine other than having to endure the torturous comments from this board.
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antiqued
May 3, 2006, 1:20 AM
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In reply to: 1/10 saftey ratio, you should consider fall/force factor Your 2000 pound biner is rated to hold max 200 lbs The 2000 lbs is only when there are no shock or fall factor involved.
Majid
What do you use for gear? All the common carabiners are rated for only ~5000lb. One-tenth of that seems inadequate to hold a fall.
Because of different rating systems, that 3/8" quicklink is far stronger than any common aluminum carabiner.
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sbaclimber
May 3, 2006, 1:20 AM
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In reply to: ....but otherwise you'll be fine other than having to endure the torturous comments from this board. |
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zozo
May 3, 2006, 1:39 AM
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In reply to: I would say yes unless you and your belayer weigh a total of 2000. I would not go with my advice though on this topic.
So then your actually saying no.......
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112
May 3, 2006, 2:16 AM
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In reply to: i hate it when people try to cut corners to save a buck when it comes to climbing gear....its your life, pretend to care about it once in a while!
I hate it when people blindly trust climbing gear because it is 'climbing' gear!
In reply to: Because of different rating systems, that 3/8" quicklink is far stronger than any common aluminum carabiner.
1880 lbs -> 8.36 kN
And that is with a built in factor of saftey (thus the safe working load).
Anybody know what the factor of saftey on 'climbing' gear is? :roll:
Ken
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tradmanclimbs
May 3, 2006, 3:24 AM
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in 3/8ths or larger those quick links are commonly used as top anchors, fixed draws and rap rings all over the world. The guy wanted to know if they were safe for top ropeing. If used in pairs with the gates opposed and the threaded collar tightened with a wrench the answer is most definatly YES.
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