|
sbaclimber
May 11, 2006, 11:10 PM
Post #26 of 89
(5692 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 3118
|
I agree on the FA info! (I like the tits idea too, but phillbox put the kaibosh on that)
Most hardcopy guides have that information, so it would be handy here as well.
|
|
|
|
|
majid_sabet
May 11, 2006, 11:15 PM
Post #27 of 89
(5692 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
|
In reply to: Before adding features, fix the performance problems. This is consistently the worst performing site I visit, consequently I don't visit much anymore.
So I am not the only one having hard time browsing RC COM ,I do not know what you guys done but it takes a long time to log in , I takes a long time to go from one page to another and I think you need to fix these issues before you add another page or DB.
|
|
|
|
|
craghag
May 11, 2006, 11:22 PM
Post #28 of 89
(5692 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2004
Posts: 55
|
[quote="ddt"]
2. We're considering expanding the "review" of routes (when logging an ascent) to multiple categories for the user to rate, such as scenery, quality of rock, exposure, fun factor, overall. Your thoughts on what these categories could / should be?
Hassle factor getting to the crag/access issues, multi-day vs day climb, camping/parking nearby, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
yokese
May 11, 2006, 11:23 PM
Post #29 of 89
(5692 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 18, 2006
Posts: 672
|
In reply to: In reply to: Before adding features, fix the performance problems. This is consistently the worst performing site I visit, consequently I don't visit much anymore. What he said. In reply to: So I am not the only one having hard time browsing RC COM ,I do not know what you guys done but it takes a long time to log in , I takes a long time to go from one page to another and I think you need to fix these issues before you add another page or DB.
I couldn't agree more...
Anyways, for a route database I think that a picture is worth a thousand words. In my opinion this:
http://www.escuelasdeescalada.com/...s/mad-ped-halcon.gif
including just the rating and (maybe) the needed pro for every route, is actually more informative than this:
" Traitor Horn **
Difficulty: 5.8
Protection: pro to 3", 2 pitons to clip up the dihedral leading up to the real horn
Description: A fun route just to the left of Open Book. Make the first belay left of the "traitor horn" to experience the thin ledge traverse, or right of the "traitor horn" (with a little 5.8 move) so belayer can maintain eye contact with the leader going up the dihedral crack to pull the roof and over onto the real horn"
But that's just my opinion....
|
|
|
|
|
majid_sabet
May 11, 2006, 11:40 PM
Post #30 of 89
(5692 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
|
I couldn't agree more...
If these guys do not know why RC COM is so slow then National Security is slowing it down checking our drives.
|
|
|
|
|
crimpstrength
May 11, 2006, 11:45 PM
Post #31 of 89
(5692 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 285
|
How about a way to get to the last page of a front page thread with less clicks. Put in a link somewhere after the thread title to get to the last page. It saves opening the thread then clicking on the page number you have followed up to....
just a thought
oh, maybe bring back ptpp
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
May 11, 2006, 11:53 PM
Post #32 of 89
(5692 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: How would it look if we released a half baked upgrade after the users have put up with the crappy performance issues for so long.
Like a brown screen with a monkey logo? Just a guess.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
philbox
Moderator
May 12, 2006, 12:00 AM
Post #33 of 89
(5692 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 27, 2002
Posts: 13105
|
In reply to: In reply to: How would it look if we released a half baked upgrade after the users have put up with the crappy performance issues for so long. Like a brown screen with a monkey logo? Just a guess. Jay
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Exactly.
|
|
|
|
|
ddt
May 12, 2006, 12:18 AM
Post #34 of 89
(5692 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2005
Posts: 2304
|
Some quick reactions:
In reply to: sounds like all of that info would be helpful, but make it a pain in the ass to sort through routes... i hope you can find a balance that keeps it simple while informative
Yup, we're definitely thinking about this. We want to capture quality data, but we don't want people to feel discouraged to enter or use the data because it's too cumbersome.
In reply to: I don't want to HAVE to answer all these questions. It would be good to let users know that this is optional. Maybe accept only what they fill in and ignore blanks?
That's what we're thinking yes.
In reply to: Before adding features, fix the performance problems.
Fixing the performance issues is indeed our priority, and we're doing it by rebuilding the site. While we're at it, we need to make sure we build the new plumbing to support the things we want to add in the future.
Lots of good suggestions... thanks, and keep 'em coming.
Daniel
|
|
|
|
|
slavetogravity
May 12, 2006, 12:53 AM
Post #35 of 89
(5692 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 9, 2003
Posts: 1114
|
In the past I have argued the importance, and won, the argument that topos need to be able to be submitted in a higher resolution format. Unfortunately, when ever a person submits a topos now the default reduces that topo to a "lower" resolution.
In my opinion the route data base isn't worth a hill of beans unless you have hand drawn, or digitally drawn topos to go with it. Unfortunately the current set up reduces any digitally drawn topo to being useless.
Here are a few examples
Here's a topo in "medium" resolution. It can be printed, read, and used in the field by any climber wishing to visit this area.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=53663
Here is one that's in "low" resolution. Clearly not as usefully.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=71774
What I suggest is that you have a better definition for "topo" Hand drawn topos and photos of crags (lets call them route photos) can be and should be submitted in "low" resolution. But digitally drawn photos (like the ones found in guide books) need to be in a higher resolution then RC.com currently allows.
Aaron Kristiansen.
|
|
|
|
|
epoch
Moderator
May 12, 2006, 12:55 AM
Post #36 of 89
(5692 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 32163
|
In reply to: Well I was going to add something constructive, but that's not going to happen since I've been getting the white screen of death for over an hour. So I will speak for all of us who covet certain dropzone aspects (especially dirtineye) and just suggest TITS!! Well that's another three tries to even get this message posted. Forget the TITS, just get rid of the white screen of death. No, I change my mind again. Don't forget the TITS, but do get rid of the white screen of death. TITS and no death screen, that's how you make the site better. Hell, I'd settle for just the TITS now that I think about and take my chances with the death screen. How about if the death screen is going to pop up, at least throw up a pair of TITS on there so it'd be a TITS screen of death. Except it would be more of a screen of pleasure, not so much death. A TITS screen of pleasure is just what this site needs. Let's take a vote on it: All in favor of a TITS screen of pleasure raise your hand. All those against, suck it. Four tries to get this message posted and still a white screen of death and no TITS!! Five tries. Do I hear six? Yep. Six tries. Nothing. No TITS!! Mother f---!! Seven. Eight. I'm gonna get this message posted goddammit. Nine. Ten. I'm beginning to feel like the Count from Sesame Street. Eleven. Twelve. Yeah, lets improve the route database. Good luck accessing the damn thing.
wjca,
Big fat Beer trophy...
I am literally crying from laughing so fucking hard...
ddt,
I agree with most. The suggestions that you mentioned in Pg1 of this topic are awesome. Alas, I too would enjoy having the oppertunity for topos. However, those who can submit pics have the ability to insert topos as it is. There is no way, though, to link the pic to the page, unless it is the first pic submitted.
|
|
|
|
|
mturner
May 12, 2006, 12:59 AM
Post #37 of 89
(5692 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 17, 2005
Posts: 980
|
Forgive me for sounding oblivious but I would really like to see the county and state (if united states) located on each picture page. When I'm surfing through pics on this website and click on one that looks cool, often times it only includes the route and area. Much of the time I have no idea where in the world these cool rocks are located and have to do some research just to find out. Could just be me though.
|
|
|
|
|
toejam
May 12, 2006, 1:03 AM
Post #38 of 89
(5692 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 24, 2002
Posts: 358
|
The ability to host .kml files for Google Earth links would be nifty, and handy for area familiarization. More for climbing areas than specific routes.
See:
http://googlesightseeing.com
http://www.keyhole.com/kml/kml_tut.html
|
|
|
|
|
neuroshock
May 12, 2006, 1:42 AM
Post #39 of 89
(5692 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 5, 2003
Posts: 680
|
i would think that the vision for the RC.com routes DB would determine what is/isn't in the feature list.
is the desire to host a full-blown online guidebook like MountainProject.com or RedRiverClimbing.com? or is the desire to be a 'teaser' to entice people to new areas where they'll go the traditional route for guidebooks? (buy the printed ones or find people in the know)
if the vision is for the former, much more flexibility in organization is needed as well as more details. most of the features i can think of have been covered by the sites noted above.
if the vision is the latter, i would think that minimal additions to what is already there would be necessary.
|
|
|
|
|
weasel
May 12, 2006, 2:05 AM
Post #40 of 89
(5692 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 2, 2003
Posts: 136
|
In reply to: 4. We want to add a safety rating for routes - referring obviously to elements like protection, run-out level, landing etc. We've seen terms such as PG13, G-rated, X-rated. Your ideas and suggestions for the names of these safety "levels"?
I didn't have time to read everyone's post, so someone may have already mentioned this, but have you considered using something similar to the old british system?
Easy (rarely used)
Moderate (M)
Difficult (D, or 'Diff')
Very Difficult (VD, or 'VDiff')
Hard Very Difficult (HVD)
Severe (S)
Hard Severe(HS)
Very Severe (VS)
Hard Very Severe (HVS)
Extremely Severe (E1, E2, E3, ...)
Just a thought
|
|
|
|
|
nevenneve
May 12, 2006, 2:14 AM
Post #41 of 89
(5693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 15, 2004
Posts: 454
|
I'm almost sure the tits thing might get so bad a shirtless guy will be off limits, but maybe adding a men's locker room for such, ahem, discussions would contain the non-climbing aspects safely away from the pristine image you wish the rest of the site to uphold. You do know most of us are adults? If the women can discuss subjects prevalent in their daily lives, so should we have a smoking den for our delights.
|
|
|
|
|
up_up_up
May 12, 2006, 2:16 AM
Post #42 of 89
(5693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 1, 2006
Posts: 69
|
I believe that the information schould be accesable...
if you go to mountainproject.com you can search by type, and grade.. i really like that... I beleive that you schould be able to see general stuff about the route... like grade, height, TR/Sport/Aid, also its area and how to reach it.
I believe that if people want more info on it they can read others reviews, i think pictures would be great, and if you can set it up a google pic would be amazing. Goggle has GOOGLE EARTH now and you can see a overview of the world.. If you could show, or have people be able that were willing to cut a pic from google earth and show where the route is, the parking lot, trails, ect... would be pretty nifty.
along with that, a picture of the wall or boulder and the routes that you can take.. as others have shown....
Grade, protection... all that info you proposed on putting on the new sight would be wonderful. yet for the people that really dont want beta, that extra info should be just a click away!
CANT WAIT! hope my input helps
|
|
|
|
|
sbaclimber
May 12, 2006, 2:19 AM
Post #43 of 89
(5693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 3118
|
In reply to: In reply to: 4. We want to add a safety rating for routes - referring obviously to elements like protection, run-out level, landing etc. We've seen terms such as PG13, G-rated, X-rated. Your ideas and suggestions for the names of these safety "levels"? I didn't have time to read everyone's post, so someone may have already mentioned this, but have you considered using something similar to the old british system? Easy (rarely used) Moderate (M) Difficult (D, or 'Diff') Very Difficult (VD, or 'VDiff') Hard Very Difficult (HVD) Severe (S) Hard Severe(HS) Very Severe (VS) Hard Very Severe (HVS) Extremely Severe (E1, E2, E3, ...) Just a thought
It is a good system if you are used to it, but the 'movie rating' system follows the K.I.S.S. principle much better.
I think X=you fall/you die, no matter how good or bad of a technical climber you are, is a very understandable rating for everyone.
|
|
|
|
|
hugin
May 12, 2006, 3:08 AM
Post #44 of 89
(5693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 1, 2006
Posts: 240
|
Here's a thought.
Forget the routes database. As many people have said, it's nothing that someone else won't do better (but the google idea is pretty boss).
But there's a niche you can fill if you're smart. The wealth of reading about climbing out there is boring. Climbing doesn't change that much over time ... after all, it is just going up rocks in the end. Back when I was 13, and my Saturday nights were spent talknig about climbing and watching Headbangers Ball, the climbing magazines were exactly the same as they are now ... and I was bored with them. What I fail to find in the climbing rags is up-to-date and in-depth articles and news of general interest to climbers as climbers. What are the current environmental issues? What are the politics that affect us as climbers? So, Liz Claiborne bought out Prana ... so what? What does that mean for Prana? What does that imply about LC's business strategy?
You have a very stong community of very smart people here ... tap them for content.
Take a look at arstechnica.com for a great example of a general interest site for technologists (it's a "PC enthusiast site"). I've been reading and posting there for 6 years now, and it just keeps getting better ... great articles about science, technology, civil rights as technology is concerned, politics, business, and a community of people that stimulate some really good conversation. If you can pull off something even halfway as engaging and encompassing as that, but with climbing at it's center, then you'll havea winner.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
May 12, 2006, 3:41 AM
Post #45 of 89
(5693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
1 - Ensure that routes are in order as they appear on the cliff (for multi-tier cliffs with routes at different levels, split these into upper and lower sections). Even mountainproject doesn't do this. This would be huge!
2 - List the routes with just the basic info, but allow users to click on each route to go to a new page (or to expand that section) with more detailed info, including a space to leave comments about the route, ala mountainproject.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
sbaclimber
May 12, 2006, 3:55 AM
Post #46 of 89
(5693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 3118
|
In reply to: 1 - Ensure that routes are in order as they appear on the cliff (for multi-tier cliffs with routes at different levels, split these into upper and lower sections). Even mountainproject doesn't do this. This would be huge! |
|
|
|
|
cracklover
May 12, 2006, 1:15 PM
Post #47 of 89
(5693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
In reply to: In reply to: 1 - Ensure that routes are in order as they appear on the cliff (for multi-tier cliffs with routes at different levels, split these into upper and lower sections). Even mountainproject doesn't do this. This would be huge! um.....you can already do this yourself :?
Not if I don't know all the routes! I thought the whole point of the routes DB was for people who don't know everything to be able to learn something about what sorts of climbs can be found where on the cliff. As things are, some of the areas have the routes in order, but most do not. Or they are a mix, with some in order as they appear on the cliff, and others in alphabetical order! What a mess! I once tried to fix an area I knew well that was like this, and the movements wouldn't stick. Don't know if it had something to do with a maximum number of routes, or what.
Anyway, I think it'd be valuable.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
boondock_saint
May 12, 2006, 1:35 PM
Post #48 of 89
(5693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 6, 2005
Posts: 2157
|
A system of linking topo maps (illustrated or photo) with route information would be grand.
Sort of like this area I put on here http://www.rockclimbing.com/...Area.php?AreaID=9482
except you have to look at the topo and go back to the image.
Now I don't know if anyone here used facebook.com. On facebook, when uploading images, you can click on an area of the image and "tag" a person. What I'm wondering is, how difficult would it be to have something like that here?
how woult it work?
A digital photo is uploaded with topo lines drawn on it. The user who is updating/adding to the routes DB clicks in the image on one of the topo lines and window pops up where you can enter information about the route. After route DB information has been entered a simplemouse over (or it could still be a click) would make a small call-out out box pop up (not a pop up window, just a small box similar to the climbing term definitons box on here) and display route information.
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
May 12, 2006, 1:37 PM
Post #49 of 89
(5693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
In reply to: In reply to: 4. We want to add a safety rating for routes - referring obviously to elements like protection, run-out level, landing etc. We've seen terms such as PG13, G-rated, X-rated. Your ideas and suggestions for the names of these safety "levels"? I like the idea of consistency across the board. I don't think it is fair to noobs for them to have to learn several systems. Stick to the: G=Good PG=Pretty Good R=Run Out X=Death from falls
that would work really well IMHO, even for (highball)boulders. you just stick a x if it a highball woth bad landing.
and some way of "quality" scale would be nice too. but id make it on a vote system. when you climb the route, you submit your "aesthetic" grade. kinda like the photo section, but it would be better with fewer options (5 stars anyone; yes, its a cliche, but its simple and clear; if it has half a star, stay away from it and go for the fove star next to it).
another thing i would REALLY like is to be able to split the route into pitches. i really miss this sometimes.
topos would be nice too, but they can wait until other stuff is up and running IMHO.
|
|
|
|
|
rockprodigy
May 12, 2006, 1:55 PM
Post #50 of 89
(5693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2002
Posts: 1540
|
I think you're missing the forrest for the trees here.
You're worried about what silly details to add to route descriptions, when your entire db is just a jumbled list of routes. Have you ever seen a guidebook that was just a textual list of route? They all have photos or hand-drawn topos with routes identified on them. That is what we need!
Until that is resolved, it doesn't matter if a route is PG or PG-13 because nobody will even find the route!
For me, the best possible scenario would be a photo with route lines on it, and when you move your mouse over the line, a little text box pops up with the details of the route.
The folks at www.smithrock.com started doing something like this, but they seem to have lost motivation. Check out this:
http://www.smithrock.com/routes/mgw/index.html
and this:
http://www.smithrock.com/...ra_direct/index.html
On the last page, notice that as you surf over the red text boxes "Route", "Route Detail", "Base of Route" the photo changes to give you more detail. This is pretty sweet, and all the routes are linked to the main topo photo of the cliff.
Good luck!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
