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madflash
Oct 29, 2003, 8:41 PM
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Okay. Here is one for you. I have recently noticed that my left big toe hurts after a hard day of tip toeing on small holds. It feels alot like some of the finger injuries I have had. No lie. Its not broken, no swelling to speak of, and I have not lost mobility. But when I apply pressure to this sucker in certain directions it quickly lets me know. I am beginning to think it is from wearing really tight downcambered shoes, most recently 5.10 dragons and Scarpa reflexes. I guess I will have to break out a pair of Mythos and ice it down with a cold one. Anyone else out there ever experience something like that?
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ksolem
Oct 29, 2003, 9:08 PM
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Years of bouldering and climbing in slipper type shoes like the old Boreal Ninja's resulted in tendonitis of the big toe flexor for me. I switched to more supportive shoes - back then the Scarpa Edge and Sportiva Kaukulator types - and the problem gradually went away. Today a good comprimise shoe which has enough support but still good feel is the Sportiva Focus, if they fit you.
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anothertucsonclimber
Oct 29, 2003, 9:26 PM
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Was breaking in a new pair of Miuras, both big toes were numbfor a while - it's all better now..! :shock:
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dangermouse
Oct 29, 2003, 9:50 PM
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I've had a similar problem with my big toe. My right foot is actually just a little bigger than my left. Instead of breaking in my new shoes I ended up making my toenail separate from my toe. Luckily it didn't fall off, but it's been 5 months and is still growing out. I've been thinking of buying another set of shoes just a little bigger just for my right foot.
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overlord
Oct 30, 2003, 4:16 PM
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ingrown toenail???
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buckyllama
Oct 30, 2003, 4:41 PM
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Yeah, I've had something similar happen a number of times. Usually after working a lot of edgy vertical routes in soft shoes.
Taking a week off seems to fix it for me. I've tried taping my toe like you would a finger but without any sort of measureable success. It does tend ot get rather worse if you don't rest it. Ibuprofin helps me walk normally during the day if it gets really bad.
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bluesky
Oct 30, 2003, 5:25 PM
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I have had major problems with my big toes and tight shoes also. Once I took a big fall and slammed into the wall mostly on a big toe and it exaserbarted my toe problems for a few months. I also like to wear a shoe that has a light board in it (the old kaukulator is my fave of that type).
I enjoy bouldering and sport climbing and like a shoe with camber for the steeper climbing, yet usually get them looser than most - just tight enough. Eventually I wear socks as they get looser. When I wear these types of shoes I take them off more frequently.
Make sure to wear shoes with roomie toe boxes (birks or roomie trail runners) when you aren't climbing to give those toes room to recover. Good luck
Jesse
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climb_plastic
Oct 30, 2003, 5:28 PM
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If you spend a lot of time tippy toeing on small holds and putting a lot of force on the toe then I'd suggest you get a shoe that is more supportive (stiffer) at the toe than the dragons so your toe doesn't have to work as hard. You'll lose some sensitivity with the rock but it sounds like you need it for your toe.
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sidewaysmaster
Oct 31, 2003, 10:05 PM
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I used find it helpful to alternate between stiffer shoes and slippers. When my toes didn't hurt I would wear slippers to increase my toe strenght, but move to a stiffer shoe when they are a little sore or the climbing that day is going to be overly stressful for my toes (really thin). Worked for me so well that I can climb in nothing but slippers now, unless it is thin slab climbing and I need a stiff shoe.
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beanrock
Apr 16, 2006, 9:21 PM
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I fell off a boulder problem mid february in a pair of borrowed shoes that were a couple sizes too small for me. The fall was about 10-12 feet onto an off camber rock which was on an upslope.
This injury has kept me out of the sport for almost two months now. the pain is not bad but is annoying. I've been to several doctors who are really good. They told me I have an inflamed joint, and i've strained a ligament in my left big toe. I honestly am quite depressed because i cant climb. I went climbing the other day. I experienced no pain during climbing but afterwards the pain and inflamation was bad. The day after it hurt even worse.
This is my first post, its a rant. but if anyone has any advice as to how i might go about setting up a new pair of climbing shoes or appliying some special sauce or surgery or anything, it would be appreciated.
thanks,
Nick
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brad_knox
May 11, 2006, 7:01 AM
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This thread is THE ONLY information I have found similar to what I've gone through. Two years ago I was climbing at El Potrero Chico. I had mostly bouldered and single-pitch climbed, and I had a pair of too-small Anasazis with Velcro straps. I climbed an incredible 8-pitch (I think) route to a picnic area. It was amazing. My feet hurt the whole time, but then they always hurt when I climb (though not as much), so I didn't worry too much about it. That night and the next morning I felt a dull but excruciating pain in my two big toes. I took the next day off and then climbed one more two pitch route.
For the next month, my toes were killing me. I was worried that I had somehow realigned the skeletal line, bending the big guys out towards the smaller toes. Four months after I hurt my toes, they were still in a lot of pain (they had started to recover but I climbed once near Oaxaca and it all came back). The pain seemed to focus around the big toe joint that is closest to the ankle. Around then, I had a friend who was a trained medical masseuse do an adjustment on them. It made a huge difference. I also realized that wearing my beloved Chacos irritates the toes much more than my tennis shoes.
I've climbed on and off since then, but have been unable to really get into climbing again, being afraid that I was causing permanent injury. Wearing any Five.Ten shoes immediately brings a lot of pain. Something about their fit pushes in just the wrong places. I recently took a few months off from both climbing and my Chacos. After a couple of months without any pain, I decided to try on some shoes and buy a comfortable pair that wouldn't be likely to screw with my toes again. I tried on one pair from a company I'd never heard of (I really am out of touch now), and wore it for about twenty minutes, walking around and getting on the few holds that the outdoor gear shop had set up. Five days later, my toes are still feeling a bit of pain.
Can anyone give any further information about this type of injury? Is it causing any permanent damage? If not, I don't mind the pain. I would love to start climbing again, but not at the cost of my toes. Also, considering my situation, what brands/models of shoes could I wear that are least likely to irritate the injury?
Thanks guys. I hope I'll be able to get the info I need to start up again.
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up_up_up
May 12, 2006, 2:36 AM
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yeah.. almost everyweekend, basically same situations too..... i jsut thought it was part of the wearing small shoes and putting your body weight on a fraction of your foot though.. what do i know though
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estwing
May 12, 2006, 2:50 AM
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Hey, this has happened to me as well. Here is a link to my original post
http://rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=103209
I took off nearly 8 months, from September to mid April, I have been climbing a few times since. Dammit it still hurts!!!
I have been to 2 doctors, a chiro, and a sports masseuse, all to no avail. Had an x-ray, there is no break. It hurts right at the spot where my left big toe reaches the ball of my foot, on the inside edge.
Help me please, climbing is my life!
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feedmerocks
May 12, 2006, 3:14 AM
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I have this problem. What I hear from other climbers who've had this problem is the following:
1) Abandon the shoes that caused the problem
2) Go to stiffer, bigger, climbing shoes (AFTER RESTING for at least 3 weeks or maybe months) maybe something board lasted and flat-toed like Aces
3) See a podiatrist, consider custom orthotics in your street shoes to prevent any further damage just from walking around. Consider stiff-toed street shoes with a rockered toe to prevent your big toe from working too much. Example: Vasque Breeze hiking boots.
4) My own two cents: climb in Scarpa Pro Ascents or something equivalent from another vendor (this is a full-on boot for light spring alpinism or big walls, with a nearly-inflexible sole at the toe and sticky rubber. Great for edging, shitty for smearing and sensitivity, it will at least allow you to get your climbing fix until your feet heel. I am wearing this for fairly hard climbs in the gym and for easier climbs outside. Luckily gym footholds are easier to work with than outdoor ones and usually take well to edging in a clunky boot.)
Good luck to all of us. Some people I've talked to who have this problem recover after a few months, some of you aren't seeming to. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for myself :-/ Y'all keep me posted as to what works and what doesn't!
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bruceb
May 12, 2006, 3:21 AM
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Google search "bunions". This may very well be your problem.
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feedmerocks
May 12, 2006, 3:51 AM
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other keywords: "bursitis" "turf toe" "hallux rigidus"
climbers seem to have the full spectrum of foot problems. my main problems seem to be bursitis/turf toe/capsulitis (though I haven't yet seen the podiatrist) but I've also got things that sound like an overstress of the big toe flexor tendon that somebody mentioned above and something that sounds a bit like what I've seen defined on the 'net as "metatarsalgia"
another thing to note: avoid climbing shoes that push your big toe laterally in towards your other toes, as much as possible
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brad_knox
May 12, 2006, 9:30 PM
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Thanks for all of the extra advice. After combing through everyone's responses, it seems there are two main things to do:
1) Get a shoe with a wide toe box to prevent the shoe from pushing your big toe into the others.
2) Get a shoe with a stiff sole, possibly even board lasted. This will remove the strain on your big toe.
The down side of a big toe box is that inserting the toe of your shoe into small holes is more difficult. The down side of a stiff sole is less responsiveness and less smearing capability. But for someone with a recurring injury (like me), it should be worth it.
I tried on the La Sportiva Cliffs at Whole Earth in Austin, and I think they'll do the job. They were much less painful (except when I tied them too tight and they pushed on my arches; but that's irrelevant).
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grandcapucin
Jul 26, 2006, 4:46 PM
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I've had the big toe problem for several years now but lately it got worse than ever before probably due to training about 4 times per week.
The good news first: My experience is that not-climbing at all doesn't help. Even several months of break don't seem to cure my big-toe joints.
Some weeks ago the pain got that bad that it would wake me up in the middle of the night and I would have to stretch the joints with my hands to relieve the pain.
Since then I started warming up my toes as I warm up my fingers before climbing and stretch them after each session. This reduces the pain and improves the mobility of the joints. In addition I bought the stiffest climbing shoes I could find (Red Chili Sausallito) to distribute the pressure on the entire forefoot instead of putting all the weight on the big toe. - It works!! Obviously my climbing performance is not the same as with proper shoes but for indoor training they are good enough and I'd rather climb wearing clogs than not climbing at all...
I also noticed that moving the joints with no load (eg during working at my desk) reduces the pain and improves the mobility of the joints as well.
Good luck and let me know your experiences!
Martin
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heavydude
Jul 31, 2006, 11:04 AM
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I recommend you guys see a good sports podiatrist or physiotherapist. Typically any condition in the feet that doesn't resolve itself in one or two weeks needs to be accurately diagnosed. If the problem recurs frequently then definitely see a professional.
Try and find someone who is interested in sports injuries.
Self diagnosing things like bunions, metatarsalgia, hallux limitus or something else will only cause more problems as there is a minefield of self help cures that don't work. (By the way, if you even think you are developing hallux limitus see someone quickly because left untreated the entire joint can solidify)
I am a podiatrist and from your discussions it is almost impossible for me to geuss what your problems are. Do yourselves a favor and see a professional.
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