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boondock_saint
May 12, 2006, 5:00 PM
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that is pretty bad ass. one step further on that (when you put your mouse over the name of a route to the left, if the color of the line in the pic could change that would be awesome. That way you don't have to search for the line among them, if you know the name.
I like the route details when you click on a line, though that may be a little too much (who's gonna take all the pics and do all the editing, ya know?) if it was available as an option it would be great, then over time more and more info could be added.
I think one thing is clear, we need pictures of routes. right now we have pics linked but most of the time they show someone climbing it. The Jackson Falls guide book does that too and it's impossible to figure out what route you're looking at.
And let's not forget TITTS, how's work progressing on those?
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jumpingrock
May 12, 2006, 5:14 PM
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In reply to: Have you ever seen a guidebook that was just a textual list of route?
The Escarpment Guide - Ontario Limestone.
Pretty crummy guide book but it works.
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neuroshock
May 12, 2006, 5:24 PM
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In reply to: Now I don't know if anyone here used facebook.com. On facebook, when uploading images, you can click on an area of the image and "tag" a person. What I'm wondering is, how difficult would it be to have something like that here? how woult it work? A digital photo is uploaded with topo lines drawn on it. The user who is updating/adding to the routes DB clicks in the image on one of the topo lines and window pops up where you can enter information about the route. After route DB information has been entered a simplemouse over (or it could still be a click) would make a small call-out out box pop up (not a pop up window, just a small box similar to the climbing term definitons box on here) and display route information.
i know that i implemented something similar about 8 years ago where we had a convention floor map and you could use the admin tool to assign exhibitors to booths. then, later on, all that stored data would be displayed for the attendees at kiosks where they could click around to find out who was in which booth, or click on an exhibitor and it'd display where they were.
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neuroshock
May 12, 2006, 6:21 PM
Post #54 of 89
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instead of new, somewhat unnecessary, features how about usability?
a cool, related thing would be to utilize AJAX to add ascents. instead of navigating to a whole page with little to do, why not just have a popup widget that prompts for the information and then on the AJAX response, updates the list of usernames displayed?
i know the site already utilizes some AJAX (top-nav under "Routes") so why not more? for an example of what i mean by popup widget, see Google's Calendar webapp--click on a day to add an event.
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taino
May 12, 2006, 7:04 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: 1 - Ensure that routes are in order as they appear on the cliff (for multi-tier cliffs with routes at different levels, split these into upper and lower sections). Even mountainproject doesn't do this. This would be huge! um.....you can already do this yourself :?
Um... no, you can't. You're supposed to be able to do it, but the reality of the situation is somewhat different.
I've tried for two years to keep the Peterskill database organized, and can't even begin it.
T
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ddt
May 12, 2006, 7:46 PM
Post #56 of 89
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In reply to: instead of new, somewhat unnecessary, features how about usability?
Usability is a high priority for us, and would trump adding new features if it came to a head.
In reply to: a cool, related thing would be to utilize AJAX to add ascents. instead of navigating to a whole page with little to do, why not just have a popup widget that prompts for the information and then on the AJAX response, updates the list of usernames displayed?
I agree. Suffice to say we're "looking at this".
Daniel
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socialclimber
May 13, 2006, 6:06 AM
Post #57 of 89
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In reply to: As you might know, we're in the process of building a brand new rockclimbing.com. As we're building out the details of the new site, we'd like your input on some things. I'm not looking to get to consensus on everything, just a read on your thoughts: 1. We need a definitive list of route types, such as trad, sport, toprope, boulder problem, ice, mixed, ... thoughts?
We should define following a (single or multi) pitch line and cleaning gear while being belayed from above, from climbing a cleaned single pitch line on top rope. The former tends to take a bit more skill and stamina than the latter. Maybe Seconding or just Second and Top rope
In reply to: 2. We're considering expanding the "review" of routes (when logging an ascent) to multiple categories for the user to rate, such as scenery, quality of rock, exposure, fun factor, overall. Your thoughts on what these categories could / should be?
We can already do this within the field provided but it seems to me that many choose to make no comment. If we are to add more fields, I suggest one for a very subjective and un-official star rating that is not linked to the routes db. There have been numerous lines I have climbed that just worked for me but were not even worth a star in the guide. Of course, this would be open to abuse similar to photo bombing.
In reply to: 4. We want to add a safety rating for routes - referring obviously to elements like protection, run-out level, landing etc. We've seen terms such as PG13, G-rated, X-rated. Your ideas and suggestions for the names of these safety "levels"?
Most people would have an intuitive understanding of how the G,R and X rating would work but bare in mind most countries don't use YDS as their rating system and so these safety ratings mated with some of the worlds grades would be unique to RC.com.
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sbaclimber
May 14, 2006, 3:57 AM
Post #58 of 89
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: 1 - Ensure that routes are in order as they appear on the cliff (for multi-tier cliffs with routes at different levels, split these into upper and lower sections). Even mountainproject doesn't do this. This would be huge! um.....you can already do this yourself :? Um... no, you can't. You're supposed to be able to do it, but the reality of the situation is somewhat different. I've tried for two years to keep the Peterskill database organized, and can't even begin it. T
Just because you couldn't do it 1 year ago, or even 6 months ago, doesn't mean it isn't possible now.
There was a (very long) time period where the ordering of routes wouldn't stick. I found it extremely frustrating as well. Eventually it seems to have been fixed, and a couple of months ago I ordered the routes on all the crags in the Port Hills, Banks Peninsula and Mt Horrible with no trouble.
Edit, I just rearranged a couple of routes as a test, and yes, it still works.
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sbaclimber
May 14, 2006, 4:06 AM
Post #59 of 89
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In reply to: Most people would have an intuitive understanding of how the G,R and X rating would work but bare in mind most countries don't use YDS as their rating system and so these safety ratings mated with some of the worlds grades would be unique to RC.com.
(as socialclimber knows, here on the SI of NZ we have to deal with descriptions like 'subtle pro' as opposed to simply saying 'R'...)
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justthemaid
May 14, 2006, 2:31 PM
Post #60 of 89
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a) Eliminate the white screen of death before someone goes postal and kills their spouse.
b) I 2nd/3rd/4th the idea of having a picture with the routes. Way more useful than the jumbled imformation that's sometimes not even in order.
c). Personally I would like to be able to look up threads by title sometimes. Right now if the key words in a search aren't in the first line of the thread, it can be very difficult to locate on old thread you are looking for.
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jt512
May 14, 2006, 8:46 PM
Post #61 of 89
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In reply to: a) Eliminate the white screen of death before someone goes postal and kills their spouse.
Or turn it into a marketing opportunity. You could sell t-shirts with "Rockclimbing.com" printed on the front and "Connection: Closed" on the back.
Jay
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coolklimber
May 15, 2006, 1:22 AM
Post #62 of 89
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Registered: Jan 9, 2006
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Get a faster server or connection so the page loads faster. Forums for crags would be useful, so you can post updates.
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tradmanclimbs
May 15, 2006, 1:30 AM
Post #63 of 89
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Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599
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the layout of the site is fine. Just make it faster and make it work! I keep getting errors in between the deathly slow page loads.
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tradrenn
May 16, 2006, 1:29 AM
Post #64 of 89
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In reply to: 1. We need a definitive list of route types, such as trad, sport, toprope, boulder problem, ice, mixed, ... thoughts?
You are absolutelly right with this idea.
I think it would be nice if you could add some info like TR for top rope, S for Sport, T for trad and B for Bouldering.
In reply to: 2. We're considering expanding the "review" of routes (when logging an ascent) to multiple categories for the user to rate, such as scenery, quality of rock, exposure, fun factor, overall. Your thoughts on what these categories could / should be?
In my opinion it would be good enough if you guys could make ratings of routes divided into G, PG, PG13, R, X, well you get the idea, just like Dick Williams does in his Trapps guide book ( Gunks )
In reply to: 3. Any suggestions for additional data fields that might be valuable in our routes database (at all levels of the hierarchy, e.g. routes / sections / areas / etc.)?
When a user updates his profile and he/she want othere climbers to know what they climb/lead mostly. I think it would be useful to add some colours to that ( if it is not to much to ask for ) Just to give you a small example you could use greenfor trad lead, blue for boldering, etc.
The reason for this is that it would be easier to know if other user is more into TRAD SPORT or BOLDERING
In reply to: 4. We want to add a safety rating for routes - referring obviously to elements like protection, run-out level, landing etc. We've seen terms such as PG13, G-rated, X-rated. Your ideas and suggestions for the names of these safety "levels"?
Please see my point above with the G, PG scale.
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sidepull
May 16, 2006, 1:45 AM
Post #65 of 89
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In reply to: I highly recommend some way to upload topos. Either for the area or for each specific climb. That's the only way an online routes db will actually be truly useful.
I agree. It seems silly to spend so much energy re-doing a database that does half the job. Isn't there a way to make creating topos easy? Maybe even generate some communal interest by posting topos on the front page and letting us rate them like photos?
Also, The route info section feels pretty cluttered as is. It seems few of us even want to update routes we've climbed and therefore even less will take the time to add ratings regarding scenery, exposure, etc.
In other words, I'd rather keep the site as is for now rather see a solution that doesn't really give us a cool database.
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mowz
May 16, 2006, 3:10 PM
Post #66 of 89
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Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 1495
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I always liked the display of how long the thread is.
i.e. I hate your dog (1,2,3,4,5)
I liked this when it was displayed next to the topic so that, if I was returning to a thread to see what has been said since page three, I can just click on three. Now, I have to open the thread and then click on a page number. I know it seems trivial but it becomes a nuisance when one is keeping track of many threads. It's just a convenience, but isn't that what technology is for? To make things more convenient?
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
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microbarn
May 16, 2006, 3:16 PM
Post #67 of 89
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I came across one more thing that the new RC.com could cope with. I didn't think it was worth making a new thread.
I like to make the width of windows to be half of my monitor (very narrow window width). RC.com does not currently handle this elegantly. The pictures and podcast overlap and so on. Just a thought for a possible improvement.
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dingus
May 16, 2006, 4:30 PM
Post #68 of 89
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Suggestion:
TopoTool - a new, web based utility to 'draw yer own' topos, incorporated into the rc.com database. Available for all to use free with one catch... all routes depicted wtih topoTool must be available for inclusion in the rc.com routes database.
That way... you give a little to get a little. Drawing a useful topo of a route isn't easy, specially for those with no experience doing it. Yet a photocopy or a hand drawn theft of someone else's topo is very uncool.
Create a simple CAD-like topol customized for route topos... FEATURE.
DMT
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tim
May 16, 2006, 5:34 PM
Post #69 of 89
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In reply to: TopoTool - a new, web based utility to 'draw yer own' topos, incorporated into the rc.com database. Available for all to use free with one catch... all routes depicted wtih topoTool must be available for inclusion in the rc.com routes database.
Heh... funny you should mention this. There was a site covering Colorado crags that did this a while ago, people were FURIOUS. "How dare you document MY CRAG!!!1" --billybob Anyways, that went away. But the JavaScript hooks and image manipulation code to connect-the-dots are surprisingly straightforward. I'm not entirely sure why the MountainProject guys haven't done something like that, it's not like they don't know how to write their own code. Between grad school and endless debugging of the partner-finder tool (which, as it happens, was a Google Maps hack that used the various menu levels for continent/country/state/city to move the maps around and display nearby people, albeit with a "not too accurate" proviso for annoying stalkers), this got shoved aside. Turns out that Internet Explorer has EVEN MORE annoying bugs than previously imagined.
Nonetheless.. this has been done previously, it is possible. And among the various options for improving the routes database this is probably the most consistently requested by people who add to and update the db a lot (i.e. not leeches). The most robust way to do this, without making the process a nightmare, is to use the existing photo upload functionality, which is already capable of manipulating images (as are all respectable image library packages), and provide a "connect-the-dots" interface for where a given route goes. As it happens, the FotoNotes people have implemented this...
My suggestion, having just updated myself on what's out there, would be to use the FotoNotes package to give people the option of annotating their photos as route topos. Some people have already done this statically, by drawing red lines and belay dots on their photos pre-uploading. But the great advantage of the FotoNotes package is that, if someone designates a photo as a "Topo" (eg. if we have a category reserved for "base" photos to be drawn upon), other users can fill in new routes as they are put up. There are some tweaks that need to be made for FotoNote to work the way you suggest -- instead of just annotating regions, the interface needs to be hacked slightly to permit adding an ordered series of points that are then connected by the GD library and drawn onto a copy of the photo. But the heavy lifting is done by the FotoNotes package, which gets us past the hard part. I wish I could remember the name of the guy with the Colorado site. If I can, I'll post it.
Point is, your suggestion is not just a good idea, it's one that can be implemented without a tremendous amount of extra work, thanks to the freely available and widely used packages that people have since written.
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dominic7
May 16, 2006, 5:35 PM
Post #70 of 89
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Another table in the routes database for pitches of a multi-pitch climb. Each pitch could have description, grade, G/PG/R/X, protection, photos, etc.
CREATE TABLE pitch
(
pitch_id int PRIMARY_KEY,
route_id int,
description varchar,
...
);
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redlegrangerone
May 16, 2006, 7:26 PM
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I have found that the picture posting process is currently very difficult. Not every climbing picture corresponds to an area or more specifically a route in the database. It would be good if you could post it with just a general area if it was not on a route in the database.
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wjca
May 16, 2006, 8:01 PM
Post #72 of 89
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Registered: Jan 27, 2005
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Any update on that whole TITS idea?
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tim
May 16, 2006, 8:06 PM
Post #73 of 89
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In reply to: I have found that the picture posting process is currently very difficult. Not every climbing picture corresponds to an area or more specifically a route in the database. It would be good if you could post it with just a general area if it was not on a route in the database.
On the one hand, the photo upload process ought to be as simple as possible; on the other hand, the "your photo on the front page" carrot is used along with the "need to select a route/area to upload" stick so that people are encouraged to photographically document the routes and areas they visit. You're right about the area-vs.-route issue and I'll see if I can't fix that with a few minutes' hacking. But that's about as nonspecific as I personally feel we ought to get. Periodically, people suggest that *all* photo-associated data should be optional. If this were just a photo hosting service they'd be right, however the site also desires to build a usable and photographically-enhanced routes database, hence the sometimes inconvenient task of annotating them.
I'm pretty sure that we could do a little better by eliminating some page reloads during the upload process, and just having the form automagically sprout new fields and drop-down menus in response to various user decisions along the way. But right now I'll take a look and see if your request can be fulfilled with a quick hack, and if so, it will.
I'm assuming that the eventual replacement will then be modeled on whatever's in place. If not, later on down the road, it can be modified to act similarly; new and better user interface widget libraries (like Yahoo!'s web widget libraries) keep popping up daily, so it should only get easier to do this. (eg. MountainProject and SummitPost recently overhauled their respective sites and both make use of these sorts of widgets to good effect)
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claramie
May 16, 2006, 8:15 PM
Post #74 of 89
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Here are three ideas:
1. Often times I wish that I could see a map with locations of climbing areas on it. I end up having to read through the descriptions to find a nearby town, go to mapquest and look up the town, etc. Doesn't even have to be that detailed, just to give me an idea where we are talking about.
2. Something to do with GPS could be good for those who want it.
3. Can the search engine look through the routes?
TheCrag.com has a user rating system for climbs that I found very nice. Like a product review or something, sure it's subjective, but it gives you an idea. To take it one step further, the ability to search an area only for routes with certain # of stars.
CL
PS. Thanks for the great site! I spend way too much time here and yet I keep coming back for more!
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tim
May 16, 2006, 8:21 PM
Post #75 of 89
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In reply to: Get a faster server or connection so the page loads faster.
Adding more servers might help (somewhat) but the bottleneck as it currently stands is the database, and a large number of none-too-speedy queries in our existing code that don't return data from it fast enough.
What makes more sense is to move the site to a proven piece of software that runs fast as hell, on an existing, larger server farm (which also powers DropZone), and then retrofit the UI and features of this site onto a better foundation. This has the added benefit of not costing thousands of dollars initially and thousands per year for colocation rack space. Those are not inconsequential savings, and can be used to hire contract programmers or license better packages to fulfill the other requests seen in this thread.
(Every time this type of thread comes up, someone suggests throwing hardware at the problem, based on the existing site's slowness, and usually ignoring the references to DropZone.com on similar iron. Every time, they ignore any cost-benefit considerations and throw the suggestion out as a "free stuff" type of remark. And thus every time, it's ignored. Sorry to be blunt, but without an obvious means of recouping the investment, it will not happen, least of all when better alternatives exist, such as DZ's facility. I figured that I might as well lay out why, since this response is so popular.)
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