|
snothead
May 12, 2006, 1:30 PM
Post #1 of 16
(2465 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 2, 2005
Posts: 44
|
Don't flame me for this.
I am not about to try it.
This is just something I have found myself curious about:
If you were in a really shitty situation, and you had no rope but you did have webbing, could you rap on webbing?
Has anyone ever done it or heard of anyone doing it? If so, does anyone have any experience with this using an ATC, Munter, or body rappel?
I found myself wondering about this while hiking. When I go hiking where there will be some easy scrambling I usually take a long piece of webbing in case anyone wants a hand-line for going up or down easy scrambles. These aren't places that would justify climbing gear. I found myself wondering if it would do, in a pinch, for a rappel.
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
May 12, 2006, 1:43 PM
Post #2 of 16
(2465 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
well, you would need a really long piece of webbing. munter hitch should work, but i havent tried it. anoter thing that should work is the army style biner break (just wrap it around the spine of a biner a couple of times). atc imho wouldnt work.
and if i were you i would consider purcashing some 6mm "glacier" line. its mostly used in mountaneering for the party to tie one onto the other for glacier crossing. its a dynamic, thin, light rope and usually pretty short (30m or less). should work well for emergency rappels, if you keep it off sharp stuff.
|
|
|
|
|
microbarn
May 12, 2006, 2:00 PM
Post #3 of 16
(2465 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 12, 2004
Posts: 5920
|
I have no experience, but all the body belay rapping shown in FOTH should work even better because the webbing would lay flat. You would have more friction, and the webbing would cut into you less.
|
|
|
|
|
keithlester
Deleted
May 13, 2006, 6:12 PM
Post #4 of 16
(2465 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
a long piece of webbing would be quite bulky and heavy, go with the glacier line.
|
|
|
|
|
iclime
May 15, 2006, 6:08 AM
Post #5 of 16
(2465 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 9, 2005
Posts: 47
|
Heck yeah, you can rap off webbing! In my younger and stoopider days (hah!), I rapped off one-inch and 9/16-inch nylon tube web a few times. I used an ATC. I'm sure a munter would do fine.
Why are you using webbing for the handline? When in similar situations, I also bring so-called "glacier" ropes: an 8mm twin line, which is dynamic (yeah, I've lead on it), and, I find, easier to manage and coil than webbing.
M
|
|
|
|
|
snothead
May 15, 2006, 1:40 PM
Post #6 of 16
(2465 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 2, 2005
Posts: 44
|
iclime wrote
In reply to: Why are you using webbing for the handline?
Thanks for the input. How was rapping on the webbing? Was it jumpy, did it catch in the device? was it like rapping on a static line?
Thanks for the input, keep it coming.
|
|
|
|
|
chh
May 15, 2006, 1:56 PM
Post #7 of 16
(2465 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 8, 2005
Posts: 110
|
I've rappelled short distances on 1 inch tubular webbing with a munter hitch. It worked all right.
|
|
|
|
|
heiko
May 15, 2006, 2:05 PM
Post #8 of 16
(2465 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2005
Posts: 1505
|
In reply to: Don't flame me for this. I am not about to try it.
In reply to: But where I'm comfortable scrambling and they aren't, I want an option for them to have a hand-line. Thanks for the input. How was rapping on the webbing? Was it jumpy, did it catch in the device? was it like rapping on a static line?
This sounds a lot as if you WERE actually going to try that.
In reply to: I can't justify carrying tonnes of gear.
You're obviously already carrying harness, belay device and a ton of webbing on your "hike". If you're taking people on hikes that are beyond their limits, provide for proper safety.
|
|
|
|
|
raingod
May 15, 2006, 2:42 PM
Post #9 of 16
(2465 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2003
Posts: 118
|
In reply to: You're obviously already carrying harness, belay device and a ton of webbing on your "hike". If you're taking people on hikes that are beyond their limits, provide for proper safety.
Since whwen do you need a harness and belay device for a handline?
|
|
|
|
|
heiko
May 15, 2006, 2:49 PM
Post #10 of 16
(2465 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2005
Posts: 1505
|
Man, didn't you get it? It's purely hypothetical! :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
pastprime
May 15, 2006, 3:15 PM
Post #11 of 16
(2465 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 7, 2005
Posts: 251
|
I routinely carry 80 feet of 9/16" webbing when traveling in Southern Utah's canyon country, which tends to be very cliffy. It is not unusual to get in situations where being able to get up or down a 20 foot cliff will save a lot of walking to get around it, or to have people in the group who are nervous getting up or down 50 feet of moderate friction, and 9/16" webbing is a lot lighter and easier on the body than 7mm rope, which is the smallest I would consider.
Ok, 6 or even 5mm would be strong enough for this use, and just a light, but would saw right through your clothes and skin, I think.
9/16 webbing gives a lot of surface area for body rappels, which is what I use in those conditions. Not worth carrying a harness and gear for only just in case stuff, that at most will be used for a few minutes in a few days.
I've tried it with conventional rappel devices, and I'd say try it yourself and decide. It works well enough I'd use it if I had the gear and a good reason, but it's not a rig for someones first rappel. I can't think of a situation where I would bring a harness and ATC but not a rope.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
May 15, 2006, 3:18 PM
Post #12 of 16
(2465 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
While we're being purely hypothetical, I can assure you that in a pinch you can rap off a single strand of 6mm cordalette with a gri gri. Purely hypothetically, of course...
G:roll:
|
|
|
|
|
iclime
May 15, 2006, 6:08 PM
Post #13 of 16
(2465 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 9, 2005
Posts: 47
|
In reply to: How was rapping on the webbing? Was it jumpy, did it catch in the device? was it like rapping on a static line?
M
|
|
|
|
|
snothead
May 16, 2006, 12:32 AM
Post #14 of 16
(2465 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 2, 2005
Posts: 44
|
Thanks for the input everyone, especially those sharing their experiences.
Thanks to those as well who pointed out that I'm either stupid or a hypocrite :cry:
Now that I have a few people telling me that they have done it I will keep that info in the back of my mind for when the "poop" hits the fan. I may even try it before that - on something easy with a back up rope probably. So yes, apparently I lied :o , but I couldn't get it past some of you 8^) .
And yes heiko, if I am ever hiking with a harness and belay device I will also have a rope * and a helmet * with me.
You are right that when taking friends on hikes it is important to assess their knowledge, experience, safety, use of grammar, and take responsibility for safety and difficulty of terrain etc... and that is why I sometimes bring something to make a handline. Don't worry, I won't be throwing anyone off a cliff with a body belay on a shoe string for their first rappel :shock: .
Thanks to those who filled me in on their experience and opinions - much appreciated. My toolkit just got a little more versatile.
|
|
|
|
|
kydd76
Dec 12, 2006, 11:47 PM
Post #15 of 16
(1436 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 16, 2005
Posts: 228
|
You can, rap off a 9/16 flat webbing, would be plenty strong. Why? Carry 8mm 30 ft rope, 35 cents a foot, nine dollars. You can tie both ends and the middle, and a butterfly in the middle. Hang you tarp, or make a cloths line. All of a pound? If you had a harness and stitch plate to rap that would suck. But a body belay, on a thin line or webbing would suck, think suck! Would cut in to you so much it would, suck.
|
|
|
|
|
AngusBeefheart
Dec 13, 2006, 5:03 AM
Post #16 of 16
(1416 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 26, 2006
Posts: 68
|
I lead a hiking program for Duke every summer and always carry 30 ft. of 1in webbing because you can use it to carry out an injured hiker without it cutting into your shoulders and back. I've used it to rap down some steepish slab and find that the body belay works fine. Of course we're hiking, not climbing, so I don't have a harness or any gear.
|
|
|
|
|
|
