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Approach logistics
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punk


Aug 19, 2002, 7:25 AM
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We thinking to do a route on El cap and we planing to take 4 days worth of food and water
My question will be I am thinking of transporting the water in MSR dromatry bags 10L, 6L, 4L with one unbottle camelback and I was wondering is anyone have a better system also we thinking of doing 2 approach trips one with the water and stashing it and the other is with the rest of the gear any suggestions?


radistrad


Aug 19, 2002, 7:55 AM
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If your doing a route over by Zodiac your in for a long approach, where the Nose is relativley short and easy.
As far as your water, I use gatorade bottles and duct tape.
It hot in the Valley you should plan on 1 gallon per person per day or more.


punk


Aug 19, 2002, 8:31 AM
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The quantity of water is PP and Im thinking of 5L a day which comes down to about 1.5 gallon a day PP and 3L PP for the approach…am I in the right ballpark (the rout is the Zodiac)


glockaroo


Aug 19, 2002, 9:14 AM
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I wouldn't trust the water bladders. It's too easy to pop one or more. Think about the consequences of losing multiple liters of water on your route.

I don't think its worth the risk.

Perhaps you could carry one dromedary and fill it with the afternoon's water, for easy access. If it pops, you don't lose too much.


radistrad


Aug 19, 2002, 9:34 AM
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Plan on 5 or 6 days for Zodiac, did you see Karl Baba's trip reporthttp://member.newsguy.com/~climbing/El_Cap_Zodiac_20_years.html. My partner, Brett, was with Karl.
They said HB Offset Nuts and Ailen Hybrids helped sooooo very much, like making C3 = C2...
Be aware of the bears at the base of el cap, got your food off of the gound


punk


Aug 19, 2002, 10:06 AM
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What about using the dromatry bags…did u hear of anyone loosing the water b/c of it all my experience with them has been good (don’t know how will they holdup for being in the bottom of the pack) any suggestions otherwise I just cant see myself carrying so many Gatorade 1 Gallon bottles they takes too much space…
there got to be a better way!!!…

BTW take a look at the Camelback Bladder test


glockaroo


Aug 19, 2002, 11:18 AM
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When my friend Russell Callender did the Triple Direct they blew out an MSR dromedary; read about it near the end of his trip report.

You could use standard 2-liter soda bottles and compress them for the descent. If you are German you would comprime them. I use both Gatorade and soda 2-liters. On the wall I clip the empties under the bag and forget about them for the rest of the climb.

Think of all the work you're going through to come from NY and do a wall. I simply wouldn't risk my ascent on vulnerable water containers.



[ This Message was edited by: glockaroo on 2002-08-19 11:24 ]


ergophobe


Aug 19, 2002, 11:35 AM
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I've owned three dromedaries. Every one of them has developed leaks. One punctured and I patched it. Then all three (pretty new) developed leaks around the small cap. Just got everything soaked on dayhike from one of the dromedaries. I was also packing up a bag yesterday and noticed some leakage. It was the Platypus. The only bladders that haven't leaked on me have been Camelback (except through the bite valve -some significant disasters on that score).

And as for the Camelback tests - it's not burst resistance that's important, it's puncture resistance.

Incidentally, I've busted a ton of Nalgenes as well. My question: If Safeway can sell incredibly strong two-liter bottles for 99 cents *and* throw in a complimentary two liters of Coca Cola for free, why do all of these outdoor gear manufacturers charge $$ for bottles that just break?

Incidentally, the only time I've wrapped soda/gatorade/spring water bottles with duct tape was as a means of storing duct tape (so I have 6-10 feet of duct tape around the bottle I put on my lead harness). Otherwise, I haven't wrapped then and I haven't broken them. In below zero weather, I've hit one with a ice hammer fairly hard without breaking one.

That said - try this at home. Sterilize your gatorade bottle by putting a small amount of water in it and toss it in the microwave for three minutes (just enough water so it doesn't boil off and don't cap it). Measure it when done. Tada! Your one liter bottle is now a .7 liter bottle.

Tom


theclimer


Aug 19, 2002, 11:42 AM
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Quote:Incidentally, I've busted a ton of Nalgenes as well. My question: If Safeway can sell incredibly strong two-liter bottles for 99 cents *and* throw in a complimentary two liters of Coca Cola for free, why do all of these outdoor gear manufacturers charge $$ for bottles that just break?

Does this also apply to the Lexan Nalgenes? I've got like 4 regular Nalgenes (slightly softer - can see how they would puncture), and one Lexan (hard - I doubt it would puncture but could it shatter under a load?)

I'll go online and try to find some tests. If I find any I'll post the results here.

J


ergophobe


Aug 19, 2002, 12:07 PM
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The problem with Nalgenes is that they all use the same caps. I've never broken the Lexan, but I've dropped a full Nalgene about 3feet/1metet (fell off a sink while I was filling another) and it just blew the cap right apart - the threaded part stayed on the bottle and the center part just blew off. I have to say, though, that I've broken the caps on gatorade bottles too. Nothing's perfect

[ This Message was edited by: ergophobe on 2002-08-19 12:08 ]


mrhardgrit


Aug 19, 2002, 3:35 PM
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I'm not so sure about your idea to take 5 litres a day up on the wall...

Unless you sweat a hell of a lot, climb like a possessed man and don't start climbing until the sun is right on you, you won't need more than 4 litres per day. Especially, considering you will consume a fair bit less that than on the top 1/3 to 1/4 of the route where the temps are much lower.

You could be safe and not risk it, but then again, there are certain limits and you may just end up lugging a whole load of kilos of water for nothing.

Remember!! If you don't think you're going to use it all.... stash some at the decent ledges for thirsty parties following you - it may just be a life saver!

T


justsendingits


Aug 21, 2002, 9:43 PM
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July and August require more water than spring and fall.If you use the BETTER WAY to haul(2-1,ratchet)you can haul as much as you please!!

A bear thrashed 5 gallons of my water at the base of T-trip!!!Hang your water!!!

R


passthepitonspete


Aug 21, 2002, 11:14 PM
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Tom,

He's bringing the extra water for his shower, eh?

Two-litre pop bottles are indeed the Better Way. Add a little tie-off loop of 3mm cord looped around the neck - one end of the cord is a half-a-double-fisherman's slipknot, the other half is a little overhand loop for clipping in.

NO duct tape on the bottles, as this will identify you as a B.W.T.

As Glock points out, "comprime" your water bottles after use. Along with your candy food cans....


pbjosh


Aug 21, 2002, 11:24 PM
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I agree that dromedaries are not a good idea. They will not survive being crammed in a haulbag and hauled around a roof and and and...

Use 2 liter pop bottles or something else made of strong and cheap and collapsable (for when they're empty) plastic with good strong scew on lids and enough of a lip that you can throw a clove hitch or other knot of choice around 'em to make a tie in loop.

hasta.

josh


apollodorus


Aug 22, 2002, 12:05 AM
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PTPP, once again, has the answer. Those 2-liter soda bottles are the way to go. They're easy to clean, they take a cinch knot just below the cap, they are hard as hell to spring a leak in, and they are cheap enough you can cut them apart as knot protectors. Even after you comprime them, they can reinflated for another wall, with no leaks (usually).

The old guy who comes around my house collecting recyclables leaves as many of those things as I ask for. So, for me, they're free (except for the time to wash them out; they wash out pretty easily).

Hang your water and other sherpa loads. There is a bear who's learned that he can get food and water by rifling packs at the base of El Cap. And don't just put them at the top of some class 3 scrambling at the start of the Trip. It's only a matter of time before a bear free solos seven pitches of 5.11+ to get at someone's bags.


joebuzz


Aug 22, 2002, 1:58 AM
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Hey Punk;
Plastic bottles are definately the way. Don't bother bringing any with you. On your "approach", you'll come through either San Fran or Los Angeles. Go to one of the "Warehouse" stores eg; Price Club/ Costco and buy 1.5 liter bottles by the case for next to nothing. Clovehitch some thin cord under the lips of each and "Ta-Da!" Don't even bother with the duck tape, it's a waste of time and money. Good Luck!
Buzz


justsendingits


Aug 22, 2002, 2:25 AM
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 Punk,check out the scratch and dent food store in Oakhurst,Buy most of your food there,very,very cheap.And you can get bottles there,also the recycle center in the Village is a good place,as is the big plastic containers can in the Housekeeping area.

[ This Message was edited by: justsendingits on 2002-08-22 02:26 ]


ergophobe


Aug 26, 2002, 9:04 PM
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If you are a truly cheap bastard like me, you will go down to your local recycling center and just pull two-liter bottles out of the dumpster to your heart's content. A little soap and hot water and you've got all you want.

Tom


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