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Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy
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jrzacher


May 26, 2006, 4:21 PM
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Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy
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So I finally bought 2 Adj. Daises. I was wondering what sorts of configuration people use. Today I went out and had the Aider and Adj. Daisy on the same key lock biner. I found that this was not working out because the base of the biner wasn't big enough to facilitate both items. TO remedy this does one use a separate biner for Daisy and Aider? If so then do you clip the aider to the daisy, or daisy to aider? How many people still use a Fifi in addition to the Adj? They worked well until I got really close to the piece and there was a few inches of transition where it was awkward where I couldn't get enough tension until I was above the piece.
Thanks for your help,
Jesse


horseonwheels


May 26, 2006, 6:37 PM
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Re: Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy [In reply to]
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I use the metolius adj daisies (not that it matters for the setup), but I use a biner on the end of the daisy, then clip that into the loop of the aider.

So... I have both the biner that you'll be clipping to the piece of gear, and the adj daisy biner in the loop.

Puts you further away from the piece, but makes it easier to adjust the daisy and move the aider to the next piece.

You could use a fifi along with this setup to really pull yourself in close, but the kind of aid I do (C1 maybe C2), it's not necessary.


beyond_gravity


May 26, 2006, 7:50 PM
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Re: Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy [In reply to]
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Dr. Piton explains an excellent way of setting this up.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=5012&forum=19&23

You'll need to scroll though some choss first, but it's there.

Cheers


weasel


May 26, 2006, 10:24 PM
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Re: Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy [In reply to]
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I usually have the adj. daisy and aider on the same biner. You can use an oval so they both fit in there nice and snug. The reason I decided to clip them on the same biner was because I can only get in so close the the adj. daisy. With my regular daisys I could just fifi straight into the last loop or top biner, but with the adjustable one the closest I can get to the gear is about 4 or 5 inches. Bleh.

On stuff where I really have to stretch, I'll still use my fifi, just for that few extra inches.


skiclimb


May 27, 2006, 6:41 AM
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Re: Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy [In reply to]
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I always keep them on seperate biners because it gives a lot more quick options when dealing with less than ideal situations. You can still clip the aiders into the daisy's biner and use them together or get the aiders out of the way quickly if needed.

Make yourself top step as often as you can.Takes a bit to get comfotable with it.


onbelay007


May 29, 2006, 6:40 AM
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Re: Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy [In reply to]
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I've been using an adjustable daisy as well as a fifi hook. The adjustable gives me that secure feeling as I'm fairly new to aid climbing but when I get comfortable or get to a relatively easy section of the climb with bomber gear it's so nice to have the fifi option so I can cruise through without playing around with my daisy settings. For something so small and light as a fifi, why not bring one along even if you only use it a few times. It's nice to have options.


tradclmbr


Jun 4, 2006, 11:51 AM
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Re: Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy [In reply to]
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Why not bring a fifi - because it gets hooked on everything and impedes progress. Maybe Im on too weak aid (C2), but I havent found the need to fifi in - just move quickly through the deadspot (where adj doesnt get you close). If anything it forces me more quickly to the 2nd step above the gear to tension the daisy upward. To me a fifi would slow me down..........(though if I slow down anymore I wont actually be moving!). Im looking to eleminate elements/movements, not add them.


Partner euroford


Jun 4, 2006, 3:44 PM
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Re: Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy [In reply to]
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the fifi definitly speeds things up greatly on easy aid. when the ground isn't that steep just don't even use the adjustment in the daisy's, stand up, get high and fifi into the piece. that way you don't waste time playing with the daisy's. the fifi doesn't get in the way, becouse as soon as you get the hang of things it will be in use 99% of the time.

adjustables are -very- nice for extremely steep stuff, especially when you have your feet hanging in space.


bsmoot


Jun 4, 2006, 4:55 PM
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Re: Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy [In reply to]
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Trad climber said:
In reply to:
Im looking to eleminate elements/movements, not add them.

Why don't you try eliminating your daisys altogether. This will really speed things up! I've aid climbed for many years and have never used them...they slow me down. Aid climbers have survived quite well without them over the years.


lambone


Jun 4, 2006, 8:00 PM
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Re: Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy [In reply to]
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There is no doubt that adjustables slow you down.

but they can save energy on really steep aiding. If the climbing is vertical or less I'd rather have regular daisies.


beyond_gravity


Jun 4, 2006, 8:14 PM
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Re: Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy [In reply to]
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can someone explain to me how you get the 2:1 advantage? if you rig them how you're suppost to, it seems to me this is just a 1:1.

are people rigging them upside-down and pulling up or something?


Partner euroford


Jun 5, 2006, 7:00 AM
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Re: Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy [In reply to]
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for one method of aider/daisy rigging, visit my daisy thread. regular daisy's are shown, nothing changes if you use adjustables. do some research, there are a couple of popular ways to rig, each has its own advantages.


russwalling


Jun 6, 2006, 1:34 AM
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Re: Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy [In reply to]
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In reply to:
can someone explain to me how you get the 2:1 advantage? if you rig them how you're suppost to, it seems to me this is just a 1:1.

are people rigging them upside-down and pulling up or something?

More than you need to know:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=92228

Hint: You ain't getting 2 : 1


dirtineye


Jun 6, 2006, 7:20 AM
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Re: Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
can someone explain to me how you get the 2:1 advantage? if you rig them how you're suppost to, it seems to me this is just a 1:1.

are people rigging them upside-down and pulling up or something?

More than you need to know:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=92228

Hint: You ain't getting 2 : 1

THere's somethign fishy about this russwalling guy.... got gills or something... I heard he took a pair of Oprah's undies and made em into this killer double rope bag though...


styndall


Jun 7, 2006, 7:11 PM
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Re: Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy [In reply to]
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In reply to:
can someone explain to me how you get the 2:1 advantage? if you rig them how you're suppost to, it seems to me this is just a 1:1.

are people rigging them upside-down and pulling up or something?

The adjustable daisies are (minus friction) a 2:1 hauling system, and here's why:

Imagine that you have forty feet of rope thrown over a pulley 20 feet off the ground. You want to get yourself up there. So you tie yourself to one end, then you grab the other end of the rope and starting heaving down (did I mention that you're really strong?). By the time you've gotten your knot to the pulley at the top of the twenty feet, forty feet of rope will have passed through your hands. Pulling forty feet of rope to go 20 feet means a 2:1 system.

If somebody else were hauling on the other end of the rope, it'd just be 1:1, since they'd be standing on the ground the whole time and would only get to pull up 20 feet of rope. Since you're rising as the rope is pulled in, however, you get to pull in a greater fraction of the rope and POOF, mechanical advantage ensues.


lambone


Jun 12, 2006, 5:17 PM
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Re: Aid Climbing with Metolius Adj.Daisy [In reply to]
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regardless of mechanical advantage or not, one proplem with hauling yourself up with the daisies each time is that it puts excess wear on them and makes them fuzzy quickly.

when they are fuzzy they are much more of a pain to use because the friction is much greater when trying to adjust them in or out.

it's better to stand up in your aiders and adjust the daisies without your full body weight on them.


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