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cornish_retard
May 26, 2006, 10:36 PM
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Are modern racks excessively big? Do you find that as you buy more gear it gets increasingly harder to leave kit at the bottom of the route? Would carrying less gear make you lighter, more nimble and therefore more confident, requiring less protection?
The ammount of protection you carry is related to the length and type of route. Taking this into consideration, I still tend to rack too much. I usually have 3-4 hexes, a couple of cams, slings, a variety of quickdraws and 8-10 nuts left over even after rigging a belay. The trouble is that I'm always scared of running out of kit. I'm not too bad for this, but I have seen people setting off up 30 ft routes with 8 cams, 2 sets of nuts, full range of hexes, a fig. 8 and all manner of other tat. They must be making life harder for themselves, aren't they?
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devkrev
May 26, 2006, 10:43 PM
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my opinion(take it as such) is that you should take whatever you feel comfortable. You better believe I will be taking more gear if I am onsighting something at my limit, than I would take if I am flying up single pitch done it a hundred times climbs here in CT. Some climbs I have the gear memorized, so I only bring the 2 (or 3 or whatever) pieces I know I will need. Maybe you should start leaving more stuff on the ground and see how you like it.
I carry a pretty small rack, but then again, I also climb in locations that lend themselves to many options for gear(gunks).
Its all about what YOU want to do, if you want to leave more crap on the ground, do it.
One of the most awesome "gear moments" that I had was when I linked 2 pitches together, arrived at the top of the climb, and set an anchor with the last 3 pieces I had on my rack. I had all I needed and nothing I didn't, and personally, I think there is a certain sense of satifaction in that.
But thats just me
dev
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cornish_retard
May 26, 2006, 11:06 PM
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Dev,
I know what you mean about using up all your gear. That is what I aim for but rarely achieve; it does feel good when you do it though. I think in my case the biggest problem is not 'reading' the route properly before i set off. More time spent looking would mean less weight to carry.
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thegreytradster
May 27, 2006, 12:27 AM
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Yes!
Except when I don't bring enough!
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redlegrangerone
May 27, 2006, 12:29 AM
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I always bring everything I have. But I have not been leading long, so I do not always know what I might need. At this point, I would rather have way too much, than not enough.
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deltav
May 27, 2006, 2:15 AM
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Sure, I take way the hell to much, but hey, better safe than sorry. Running it out isn't my favorite thing to do. And if you are not comfortable in your placements because you had to settle for a different piece, than that can and will affect your climbing.
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nthusiastj
May 27, 2006, 4:15 AM
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I carry alot of gear on a route I've never done. Less on ones I know the gear for. Then again I carry really light gear.
When you get to a belay and need a #2 and you placed one on the pitch below, you are usually glad you carry doubles.
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dirtineye
May 27, 2006, 4:41 AM
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no such thing as too much gear, unless you can't lift it.
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jakedatc
May 27, 2006, 5:13 AM
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too much gear + hard rock over mantel = scary shit haha
smart gear over too much gear.. sure you find occasional big spots on thin climbs and small stuff on large cracks but do you really need it? Having the options at the bottom is fine but bring what you need.. not all that you have (at least all the time). love the people doing single pitch with 18 slings and 2 cordalettes
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alex234
May 27, 2006, 6:22 AM
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i generally carry too much but have gotten to the top of some pitches at the gunks with just enough gear to make an anchor...however a much more experienced climber friend of mine has told me, and i tend to believe that carrying extra gear can make a difference between an onsite and a redpoint on a route....just some food for thought...it makes you wonder how much of a difference those extra pounds of weight could effect your sending.
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tradmule
May 27, 2006, 10:47 AM
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A full set of Camelots c3 and c4 up to #4 only weighs about three pounds but think what kind of pro that extra three pounds would get you. It's no fun looking at a sketchy belay when an extra pound or two of gear would have made the difference. Skip a trip to Micky D's if your worried about a couple of pounds. IMHO.
Mule
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rockguide
May 27, 2006, 1:30 PM
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I carry smaller racks on routes that I know or that are well in my comfort zone. That leads to faster, more confident movement and being able to find the right piece more quickly and with less tangle. (and at risk of starting another flame war, no daisy on the front of my harness reduces tangle).
It is partly an experience thing - a more skilled trad leader can be more efficient with placements from a small rack (see opportunities that a new trad leader will miss) and be more likely to place a better piece in most terrain (reducing the need to back up pieces/over protect).
It also depends on rock type - I carry a much smaller rack on Canadian Rockies limestone rock routes (where bolts/fixed pitons, runouts are common and many belays are bolted) than on granite routes.
For me a big granite rack (like, a really big rack) is wires, a few tricams, a single set of cams (doubles in medium sizes) and the three larger hexes. I have not been to Indian Creek - I know the show there is different.
My heaviest rack item is my 8.5lb hilti power drill - as some of the routes I climb require multiple pieces in the 3/8 inch range. :lol:
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dirtineye
May 27, 2006, 1:48 PM
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fvck you very much, it's been fun
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overzealous
May 27, 2006, 2:18 PM
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If you're carrying big pieces you turn out not to need for a given pitch, the second will really appreciate it if you leave them all clipped to the first piece you place off the belay.
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dudemanbu
May 27, 2006, 3:54 PM
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So THAT'S why devkrev sets 8 pieces of gear at every crux.. Thanks for the enlightenment dirt, i'll be sure to return the favor on my next lead.
In reply to: What you mutts don't understand, is that carrying too much gear is part of an art-- the art of screwing the parasitic second! Consider, the second, who climbs the route on your dime, criticises your placments, carps about your speed, laughs at your weakness, short ropes you at a critical moment, forgets the beer, you name it. But most importantly, he climbs without the extra weight of the rack. So heres how it works. YOU drag your huge rack up to the crux. YOU hand all excess gear at the crux. You pull the crux, and finish. Now, when the slimeball smug second reaches the crux, he has to carry all the extra weight through it. ROTFLMAO!!!!! I am probably going to get in big trouble for telling this dark secret of trad, but I don't care. IT's high time someone gave out good informatin about this big rack business, and now you know... the rest of the story! Apologies to Paul Harvey. |
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sungam
May 27, 2006, 4:53 PM
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lol, sounds like an awsome plan!
I'll try it next week... :lol:
after my chemistry exam... :cry:
-Magnus
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carl_mogensen
May 29, 2006, 1:58 PM
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Practice makes perfect. Take whatever is comfortable and you'll learn from the experience. :D
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swede
May 29, 2006, 2:58 PM
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Well, I nearly always carry too much gear, but does it really matter? Most often itīs just a little bit of extra weight training. In worst case it means blowing the crux, but having enough (and well placed) pro in the rock.
I really doesnīt care if I have too much gear if I make it to the top. But having to return to the ground because of too little gear really sucks when I just have a few meters left.
On the other hand, being lighter, more nimble, more confident and fall on too little (or marginal) gear is a very bad thing indeed. The worst case is why I carry pro at all.
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yekcir
May 29, 2006, 3:35 PM
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My favorite situation is racking up for an R rated route that you can't get a good look at. You may see that first dubious placement, but after that you've got no idea what you'll need. So, you rack everything in sight so you'll have what you need when you've got an opportunity to place something. Meanwhile, while you're covering all of the sizes from 6 inches to guitar string wires, you're thinking about how you're going to place 3 or maybe 4 of them all told!
Of course, it's a pretty bad feeling when you get to that key placement and you've got nothing that will fit. I'll keep racking too much and hang those big cams off of that key brassie, telling my second it was to keep it from levering out!
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dutyje
May 29, 2006, 5:07 PM
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In reply to: What you mutts don't understand, is that carrying too much gear is part of an art-- the art of screwing the parasitic second! Consider, the second, who climbs the route on your dime, criticises your placments, carps about your speed, laughs at your weakness, short ropes you at a critical moment, forgets the beer, you name it. But most importantly, he climbs without the extra weight of the rack. So heres how it works. YOU drag your huge rack up to the crux. YOU hang all excess gear at the crux. You pull the crux, and finish. Now, when the slimeball smug second reaches the crux, he has to carry all the extra weight through it. ROTFLMAO!!!!! I am probably going to get in big trouble for telling this dark secret of trad, but I don't care. IT's high time someone gave out good informatin about this big rack business, and now you know... the rest of the story! Apologies to Paul Harvey.
:lol:
Trophy.
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dirtineye
May 29, 2006, 5:31 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: What you mutts don't understand, is that carrying too much gear is part of an art-- the art of screwing the parasitic second! Consider, the second, who climbs the route on your dime, criticises your placments, carps about your speed, laughs at your weakness, short ropes you at a critical moment, forgets the beer, you name it. But most importantly, he climbs without the extra weight of the rack. So heres how it works. YOU drag your huge rack up to the crux. YOU hang all excess gear at the crux. You pull the crux, and finish. Now, when the slimeball smug second reaches the crux, he has to carry all the extra weight through it. ROTFLMAO!!!!! I am probably going to get in big trouble for telling this dark secret of trad, but I don't care. IT's high time someone gave out good informatin about this big rack business, and now you know... the rest of the story! Apologies to Paul Harvey. :lol: Trophy.
LOL, why thanks!
Go to supertopo, check out the second part, since you are in NC, you might guess who the mystery second is, LOL!
The thread is "the fine art of screwing the second"
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tradrenn
May 30, 2006, 2:38 AM
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I usually cary to sets of stoppers, 5 aliens ( wish I had 10 ) and 9 camalots
Every time I leave someting on the ground I endup needing that piece for an anchor. Something to think about for you.
The irony is that on average I will have 10 or 12 draws on me but I will carry about 30 pcs on my rack.
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dirtineye
May 30, 2006, 4:15 AM
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What a n00b rack.
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dudemanbu
May 30, 2006, 4:41 AM
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In reply to: I usually cary to sets of stoppers, 5 aliens ( wish I had 10 ) and 9 camalots Every time I leave someting on the ground I endup needing that piece for an anchor. Something to think about for you. The irony is that on average I will have 10 or 12 draws on me but I will carry about 30 pcs on my rack.
Wow. That's a ton of gear to bring on just about any climb.
I just about always bring one set of bd stoppers, dmm peenuts, and grey, yell, blue, and red WC zeros, and .5, .75, 1, 2 maxcams. If I see myself needing it i'll bring the number 3 as well. 9 trad draws is usually all i need.
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cosmiccragsman
May 30, 2006, 5:28 AM
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Yes I carry a lot of gear. But, my excuse is, this beat up, and many times injured,(not all from climbing. :D ) 52 year old body,
doesn't like taking long falls anymore. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Cosmiccragsman
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