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kathycrack
May 30, 2006, 3:07 AM
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I recently went to Smith Rock. Nothing against the people that climb there but they tend to have a bad case of the "rads". NOT ALL but a lot., or i just tend to run into the ones that do. So anything that happens there doesn't surprise me BUT I was wondering what all of you out there think....
I was climbing at some sport area having a great time. There was a crowd around but everyone was SO SO SO cool. I was having a great time just meeting people and climbing. Soon the cool people left and in strolled some people that seem to need to use grades to feel like someone. Something that annoys me...but to each his own...I am at smith.
One thing stuck out of my head though. There is a kid that seems to just be learning to climb (call him Steve), climbing some climb to the left. There are his friends climbing this classic 5.10a to the right of me. They finish the climb, clean it, rap down, before they pull the rope though one kid lets call him Tom, Tells his friend (Jim) Maybe Steve wants to climb this. Tom is like humm I just cleaned it though, he would have to climb through the rap anchors. Steve is like HAAAAA WHO CARES!!! That is old school style not to climb through anchors. I am new school man and that is how we do it. My friend taught me everything he knows and he climbs 5.13, he climbs through the rap anchors.
I think this is crazy, first who gives if you climb 5.5 or 5.15 it doesn't make you know best. Second....try working for Access Fund who replaces those rap anchors.
I have read through rock climbing.com and I know you all tell it like you feel.. I was just wondering what you though....maybe I am wrong for being OLD SCHOOL. Does it really make a difference who taught me to make it right?
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kathycrack
May 30, 2006, 3:21 AM
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That is not my point!
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treez
May 30, 2006, 3:30 AM
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Does it make a difference who taught you how to spell, use punctuation, and get your point across? :wink:
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tattooed_climber
May 30, 2006, 3:31 AM
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me too, what are you dribbling about??? the fact that they were going to leave a rope up for their friend who's new to climbing???
you're not makin sense cheeco
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baigot
May 30, 2006, 3:34 AM
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Whaaaaat???? i donīt get it...
V. :shock:
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kathycrack
May 30, 2006, 3:42 AM
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MAN YOU BOYS ARE BRUTAL!!!!!!!!!
Yikes! Sorry I am new at this thing. I get all worked up and I must have come across as confusing. Sorry...my bad.
My point:
IS it okay to top rope through rap anchors. I thought it wasn't because I have seen people working for access fund replacing all those worn out anchors.....What do you think.
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treez
May 30, 2006, 3:44 AM
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OH!!!!!!!!!
In that case I think:
There's a billion threads out there in which this topic has been beat to hell and back fifty times over!!!!!!!!!!
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pyrrhonota
May 30, 2006, 3:52 AM
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How I have always understood it is that rap anchors are for rapping, if you are going to TR off them then add a couple of draws.
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pamolapat
May 30, 2006, 3:53 AM
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Kathy, I didn't think your post was so hard to follow. No, it is not good to toprope through existing rap rings because the action of the rope needlessly erodes the rings. One should always set up one's own anchor off the bolt hangers. Perhaps this would have been a good opportunity to explain this line of reasoning and gently suggest they have their friend re-lead the line and rap from the top. Of course, lending people unsolicited advice is not always easy, but for a "common-good" type thing I'd say it would be warranted.
Patrick
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angry
May 30, 2006, 4:00 AM
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Unless the toproper is falling a lot, it's not a really big deal.
It seems common practice (though it shouldn't be) to lower off rap anchors. This causes way more erosion on the links than TRing would.
My favorite setup is when someone leaves a couple biners as the bottom link. When they wear out, it's so easy to replace. Of course some asshat will come along and take them, just because he's an asshat. So you've got that to worry about.
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slimper
Jun 3, 2006, 8:11 PM
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I agree put up some draws to run through. However, I have to admit to lowering off chains before :oops:
I think a good option is to have quick links as the last loop in the chains. you can replace them, but their less likely to end up as booty.
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sawtooth_ridge
Jun 6, 2006, 5:27 PM
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Traditions may vary from locale to locale.......
Although there are probably some locals that would disagree with me, existing chains are frequently toproped off, and lowering from rap chains is also a common practice at Smith and in Western Oregon. An argument for the lowering is that it greatly simplifies route retreat, and a bit of wear on chains isn't a good counter-argument for that.
BUT, for this to work, we as a community need to take responsibility for those chains as well. A wrench, appropriate nuts, and a few of the highest quality hangers (+ education on what to do w/ them!) really should be gear that accompanies you most of the time if you're truly a deadicated climber.
Use your heads of course. If chains are becoming worn and you are aware of this, jump on the job of replacing them. ******Educate yourself about the quality and lifespan of any anchor you install!!!!! *******Use ONLY the best. Price is no object! We, as local climbers, are aware of anchor hazards, etc. that folks visiting our crags are not aware of. In my book, I'd like to see every belay station I find on new climbs to be up-to-date, bombproof, and readily recognizable as such. If it's in my stomping grounds and it's not OK, I'll do my best to improve it. You'll be glad I did!
Watch yourselves concerning the ethics of route modification. Y'all know what I mean.
Never listen to me. Be safe, instead!
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dingus
Jun 6, 2006, 5:43 PM
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Most folks I know avoid *unnecessary* wear and tear on the anchors.
That said, most of them lower off rather than rap, all other considerations being equal.
We almost always top tope off our own draws or slings.
BUT...
there are occasions when the last climber, for example, my daughter, has no real expectation of climbing the route. She isn't going to make the chains anyway. Lowering her off after a TR fall is no different than lowering her off from the top of the route.
Now its pretty uncool to top rope 17 hangdoggers through the chains, chain sawing through the quick links goes a lot faster when you suspend yoyoing heffers from the rope!
In the instance you mentioned at Smith, where young Steve was only remembered after the chains were threaded? Let him have a go, no harm no foul imo.
DMT
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j_ung
Jun 6, 2006, 5:44 PM
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Personally, if the route wanders sideways a bunch or is super steep, I'd rather not be rappelling. Hopefully, there aren't many route developers out there anymore who use fixed-position anchors, such as cold shuts and chains. It's all about stainless-steel rings these days. Clip 'em to bolt hangers with stainless-steel quicklinks and you get a long-lasting, easy-to-replace lower-off/rappel point.
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sawtooth_ridge
Jun 6, 2006, 5:50 PM
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Noted.
The education begins!
I'm still in "leave webbing and 'biners behind" country.......it's getting old!
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dingus
Jun 6, 2006, 6:03 PM
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In reply to: Never listen to me. Be safe, instead!
That would make a great sig line and too, the advice applies toward me in spades!
DMT
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