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slinging hooks
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beyond_gravity


May 30, 2006, 4:27 PM
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slinging hooks
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Hi, I just got some new hooks, and i'm wondering what the best way to sling them is.

I slung my Grap-hook stopper knot style, but i'm wondering how I should sling my Leeper Logan. I tried the stopper knot, but the webbing seems to be too thick, and doesn't quite let the "feet" sit properly. Would it be better to sling this the loop way? same question for the Bat Hook.

Cheers


stymingersfink


May 31, 2006, 4:48 PM
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I google-imaged leeper logan hooks which provided several varieties of leeper hooks, from cam hooks to bat hooks.

So I will give you my recipe for both:

Cam hooks: Thread the hook with a section of 1/2" or 9/16" webbing and tie an overhand, leaving a tail to the knot which may be examined in the field for slippage (remember knots take on average 12" to tie, so an 18" length of webibng may leave you with a 3" diameter or less loop). Threading the hook on a loop will help prevent the loss of the hook, as well as allowing you to load different parts of the sling each time to prevent excessive wear in one area.

Bat Hooks (and all other cliff-hanger/talon style hooks) require a stopper knot, again utilizing the 1/2" supertape or 9/16" webbing. The knot should be on the "outside" of the hook with the resulting loop hanging down from the "inside" of the hook. This will help pull the hook into the wall, as well as keep the knot from interfering with the hook placement itself.

Hooks slung in this manner may be lost through careless handling when racking, as the hook may slip off the webbing if you grab the wrong side. Use care when handling them off a biner. Be sure to inspect the webbing frequently for wear at the hook eye. When in doubt, replace. Remember, when a piece off webbing is nicked at the edge, it is much easier to tear (kind of like that old T-shirt).

YMMV, Good luck.

~Sty
(looking for a great hook pitch? shoot for P5 on ZM)


Partner euroford


May 31, 2006, 6:48 PM
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since you have me thinking about it:

when you sling your hooks, be sure, absolutly 100% sure that you bounce the crap out of them back at home to seat the knots nicely.

to illistrate this point, i have a little story to share.

last saturday, after a fine afternoon of trad climbing, i convince Steve (onbelay007, my regular partner) to belay me on an aid lead to finish off the day. the week before i was out climbing with Rich (justsendingits), he pointed out that the webbing on my hooks was looking rather long. the overhand knots slip a little bit, so be sure to leave long tails! so i sat in my living room last thursday and fixed about half of them before loosing intrest and walking the dog. of course, the last thought in my head when putting them away was "be sure to bounce the knots tight before the weekend!". well, of course i forgot.

okay, so to get back on track, last weekend we are at Devils Lake and i'm racking up for an aid lead of Callipigeanous Crack (5.10a). it starts out with about 40' of steep c1 crack to a nice ledge, at this point the free lead would bail off too 5.6r territory out to the right, my plan is instead to lead straight up into a nearly blank 25' headwall that then tops out to a ledge and a nasty grunt up a 15' sqeeze chimney. the headwall looks totally blank from the ground except for some seams that -might- take some small wires and maybe some edges to hook.

so i dispatch the c1 crack quick and easy, stuff a nice #1 costalot into the back of the ledge (well, really a flake in that case i guess) and stand up to access my little hard aid project. looks pretty grim, i stand on my tippy toes and get the thin end of a tallon hook into a spot, stand on it and realize its crap, to get of it quick i find a better hook a couple of feet up and am totally stymied. evenutally a #3 offset sticks where it shouldn't have and high stepping this i get another talon hook and after ripping it twice get a #1 ballnut, high stepping this i get another hook just as it starts sprinkling.

obviously i'm well past the point of no return now, so i got up on the hook and realized i'm hanging on a piece of rock that looks like an onion skin ready to flake off at any moment. to make matters worse, the skys open up and all hell breaks loose. our little rain turns into a full on midwest thunderstorm and within moments i'm soaked to my fancy patagonia undies. of course, i wear glasses which means i'm damn near blind now as well. at least i'm almost to the end of the tricky stuff, and good pro is so close i'm mentally fondling the pretty 1.25dmm 4cu that i'm going to slam home when get to the next ledge.

another dicey tallon hook and i have my head 18" below the ledge, i reach for the back of my chest harness and get a nice big BD grappling hook and have already felt out the perfect bomber spot to seat it.

ya know, after awhile you get pretty comfy with that kinda hooking, in my little pea brain a grappling hook over a massive edge looks about the same as a #12 stopper. bomber beyond question. so i slap it on, get my fingers around my aider grab loop and hop on.

to my utter horror i watch the sopping wet webbing begin sliding through the knot. it was one of the hooks that i forgot to bounce back at home.

one of those total 'slow motion' moments that you see on tv. i just new the big ride was comming.

then i start laughing like an idiot when the knot finally cinches with no more than the tips of the tails sticking out of the overhand. if i had cut those tails a 1/4" shorter i don't even wanna think about where i would be right now.


so kiddies. take a lesson from me; when you tie your hooks be sure to leave long tails and be sure to bounce the living shit out of them to set the knot. i don't think i'll be forgetting anytime soon!


beyond_gravity


Jun 1, 2006, 11:17 AM
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Thanks!

how do you bounce small hooks at home? I kept ripping apart the wood in my basement with the logan.

What do you think about sewing some coban thread though the knot so it wouldn't slip?

On another note, I have access to aircraft cable crimping equipment. Do you think wiring the hooks would pose any advantage over slinging them?


Partner euroford


Jun 1, 2006, 1:50 PM
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i bounce them all on my wood grips hangboard. it makes little divits, but no big deal.

i've though about wiring myself, but then i think somebody smarter than me would have already thought of that if its a good idea afterall.

i dunno if i would want to do anything with the knot, what if you need to resling it halfway up a wall? why make it harder on yourself? just be sure to leave very long tails.


Partner slacklinejoe


Jun 1, 2006, 2:38 PM
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If you can, have it professionally bar tacked, for something like aid gear you can get tiny loops sewn to fit and not have a knot to mess with. It is a sheer PITA to sew but it's possible to make the loop incredibly small even with the hardware in there - I do this all the time with my slackline gear.

If you don't have access to the professional equipment, tie it like normal, then sew your tails to the sling - go very slow with a tight zip-zag and you *might* get your normal home sewing machine to do it. Use the strongest thread your machine can use - (most home machines can only do the semi-crappy upholstry thread and not the larger bonded nylon that is more ideal).

Hand sewing is an option but damn tedious.


ksolem


Jun 1, 2006, 2:47 PM
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Sewing or tying a loop through the eye of the hook - the normal looking solution - is not the best. Try tying a suitable loop of the same blue webbing you use for hero loops. Then stuff it through the eye of the hook, coming out of the hole on the side away from the point, such that the knot stops against the backside of the hole. When weighted, a hook tied in this manner will have more inward force at the base and thus be more stable on thin placements.


stymingersfink


Jun 3, 2006, 3:50 PM
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In reply to:
Thanks!
no prob... and you're welcome
In reply to:
how do you bounce small hooks at home? I kept ripping apart the wood in my basement with the logan.
try it hooked on the top rail of the neighbors iron fence. in lieu of that, hang the hook on a biner clipped to something more substantial.

In reply to:
What do you think about sewing some coban thread though the knot so it wouldn't slip?
i try not to think, especially about sewing.

In reply to:
On another note, I have access to aircraft cable crimping equipment. Do you think wiring the hooks would pose any advantage over slinging them?

DIS advantages? certainly. check the cable on the newer wired peckers after placing them a few times. the cable memory makes it difficult to bounce test in different areas of the cable, resulting sharp wire frays to poke the skin (and catch on all that nylon you're carrying around.) Plus, how would you go about removing that frayed piece of cable midway up a 20-day expedition?

(as has been mentioned above) Just tie the loops short, leave long tails, bounce them tight and remember to carry extra lengths of webbing with you to replace the sling mid-way up a multi-day route if the need arises.

have fun, climb safe


Partner tattooed_climber


Jun 3, 2006, 5:14 PM
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In reply to:
how do you bounce small hooks at home? I kept ripping apart the wood in my basement with the logan.

in my room, i ran a peice of 1inch webbing through the drop ceiling and looped through a drilled hole in one of the joist...clip hook via biner and bouce like a M/F.....my ceiling is already covered with xmas lights, tibet prayer flags, cord to hang sleepin bags and other crap from, aiders hanging, other flags, etc....so the addition webbing loop doesn't mess with my bedroom's chi


moose_droppings


Jun 3, 2006, 7:46 PM
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In reply to:
Hooks slung in this manner may be lost through careless handling when racking, as the hook may slip off the webbing if you grab the wrong side. Use care when handling them off a biner.

To avoid this, tie a knot almost in the middle of your length of webbing. Now slide the 2 ends thru the hook and tie your stopper knot. You now have a knot on each side of your hook, it ain't pulling thru in either direction.


beyond_gravity


Jun 3, 2006, 9:55 PM
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Thanks a lot for all the beta.

I got them all slung up and they're working great! I've never used cam hooks before, and the leeper was working like a charm! It felt more secure then a lot of my stopper placements.

I've been finding that I'm getting really sketched out on my logan. On every placement i made with it, the grappling hook would have been more secure, even on thin ledges. When I was moving up, especially into my second steps, the "feet" wouldn't sit, and the hook would start to make that scary popping noise. Am I missing something with this hook, or is this just how small hooks work?

I remember hearing about filing hooks: to what degree would I want to file these guys?


Cheers


Partner tattooed_climber


Jun 3, 2006, 10:29 PM
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i have yet to file any of my hooks....most dudes file some of their cliffhangers and grappling hooks down a bit....i think the average is putting a 45 degree bevel...and leveling about an 1/8 flat....beyond that, custom hooks is a bit of a different story


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